PGA Championship Preview, PGA Tour Board Dramas, Rory dominates at Quail Hollow

Jake Hower: 00:00:00

Welcome to episode number two of Beyond the Tour. I'm Jake Hower and with me today again is Luke Manning. How are you?

Luke Manning: 00:00:08

Hey Jake, really well back for our second episode. So we survived the first one even managed to get some decent feedback from a few what I'll say is astute listeners. And it's certainly been a really big week in golf and also a major week ahead. So ready and rearing to go and to have the discussion with you on today's pod.

Jake Hower: 00:00:29

Yep, absolutely. There's no opportunity for us to ease into this because it is, as you said, a very big news week and we've got a lot to cover, so we'll get straight into that.

Luke Manning: 00:00:38

Yep. Let's do it.

Jake Hower: 00:00:39

Today we're going to cover obviously last week's results. We're going to look at the announcement from Jimmy Dunn of his resignation. We're going to go through some of the live invites from the PGA of America. Mike Warnes interviews Rory's PGA to a board return issues. Some of the comments on the unified tour, we're going to go through a little bit more in depth in all of those PGA tour board discussions and everything around that. And maybe touch on a few other things along the way also. So if we go around the grounds from last week's results, obviously we had Rory McIlroy over at Wells Fargo winning that he absolutely lapped the field. That last day he bet out Xander Schofle and really there's no, nobody else in contention

Luke Manning: 00:01:21

Yeah, that's right. Rory a quail hollow specialist. So his fourth win now at quail hollow really just showed who the alpha dog in the field was, particularly on Sunday. He had the lowest rounds of the day, both Saturday and Sunday, but when the when the tournament was on the line, he just put the foot down. He went. eight under through a stretch of holes between eight and fifteen and really just blew Xander away. Unfortunately for Xander, he couldn't go with Rory when when the race really started. And Rory going into PGA Championship this week's got really strong form, two wins for him in the last few weeks and I think the PGA Tour would be delighted to see him starting to rise to the top.

Jake Hower: 00:02:08

it certainly would. We'll obviously discuss that tournament in a little bit more detail later on. In the Myrtle Beach classic, which was the opposite field event on the PGA tour. That was again, one in another boat race by Chris Gotterup, who is very much a Brooks Koepka lookalike. He bet out Alistair Docherty. And across on the LPGA tour, we had a boat race, but it was again, similar to the Wells Fargo, it was between two so Rose Zhang beating Madeleine Zagstrom on the final hole.

Luke Manning: 00:02:37

Yeah, that was an incredible finish on the LPGA there you got a feel for Sagstrom Had the three shot lead there with only a few to play, but Rose came home in four under through her last five holes, and that tee shot she hit on 17 was just magic.

Jake Hower: 00:02:52

So we'll get into all of that later. I think maybe let's start. With the latest news, which has a little bit of an impact on the entire world of golf, let's take a look at the Jimmy Dung resignation letter. What were your thoughts on seeing that this morning?

Luke Manning: 00:03:06

Shock initially shock, because of the timing of it. But then when you read his comments in his resignation letter, you can understand pretty clearly why he's resigned. He feels that he's got no power. He's not being consulted and that the true decision making is being concentrated into a few of the players now. So we can speculate as to who they are and I think they're probably the likely suspects, but yeah, the timing was particularly interesting, which, I noted you commented on X about.

Jake Hower: 00:03:38

Yeah. That's what I did, obviously like with a major week and there was no real reason to announce it this week, unless the outcome was to cause as much chaos and damage as possible. That's certainly interesting. The other thing that's I think is of note is that if we go back in time to the the framework agreement on the 6th of June, you've got Jimmy Dunn, Ed Herrelly and Jay Monaghan who led that discussions with Yaseer about the framework agreement. Now from all reports, Tiger and co have put them in a sandbox and they've essentially been muted since then. So I haven't been involved in a great deal at all. They've then gone and signed with SSG. And so if you're looking at it from the perspective of Yaseer first of all, Tiger has said, and that's who it is really, if we're talking about it, it's Tiger has gone and said that the deal you've signed is interesting, but we found a better partner in SSG, the people who you signed that deal with on our side, we don't like, so we're getting rid of them. But Hey let's go and sign a new deal. We still want to continue negotiations. Like that to me is a huge kick in the face to Yaseer and I don't know what they're thinking in terms of if they're looking to sign an agreement with them.

Luke Manning: 00:04:57

Yeah. I wrote in the Shank Show newsletter this week about whether the PGA Tour will be able to get out of its own way and secure a deal. We saw the about face from Brandel Shambly this week. urging the PGA Tour to strike a deal urgently with the PIF. And whether that's actually something that the PGA Tour is capable of doing remains to be seen. You called out a couple of the moves there from the PGA Tour stakeholders that Really have done their best efforts to insult the PIF as part of these negotiations bringing in a a third party investor, which was never contemplated as part of the framework agreement. At best would be negotiating in bad faith. At worst, you don't, it's just completely insulting. We have the comments that were made by Tiger and Spieth that they don't feel like they, they need the PIF now that they've got the deal with SSG. So it's it's certainly not the way that you would build a strong relationship with a co party that you're negotiating with if you're really keen on landing a deal.

Jake Hower: 00:06:10

Now thinking about all the outcomes from this. This point to me, it seems to indicate that probably the most likely outcome would be for SSG to essentially sell off the PGA tour share in the European tour, because that sort of solves a lot of problems. Maybe they'll get the majority of their investment into the PGA tour back because they can sell it at an inflated value, really, even though it's a distressed asset, it's an asset that would be of benefit to the PIF and to live. So maybe that's the way that. We can resolve this situation without many losing face on either side.

Luke Manning: 00:06:50

Yeah, I'm not really sure what the strategy or where the direction is here. The time is ticking along and the more that time goes past and the more that we see these plays from the PGA tour powers that be. The more I think that a deal is just very unlikely and that we may well have a situation where the PGA goes its own way with the SSG investment. And they try and maximize their footprint within America. And that would force Yasser's hand in terms of doubling down on further investment in LIV and really trying to build out that global footprint that they see opportunity in So that's I guess my take on it at the moment.

Jake Hower: 00:07:30

It's going to be interesting to see it play out. Obviously we could spend a lot of time talking on it and we certainly will, but maybe we'll keep moving on for now. Let's look at last week we touched on some of the invitations to the PJ championship. So obviously now that was expanded out. I think was that after last episode where they expanded

Luke Manning: 00:07:49

was, yep. That's right.

Jake Hower: 00:07:52

Yep. The PJ of America invited Dean Burmester in. Reed, Herbert, Moronk Neiman, Pooj, and of course, Gooch. So that's certainly a positive step. And it's the first major really to break to break out of the other majors in terms of their opposition of LIV.

Luke Manning: 00:08:10

Yeah, I think the PGA of America has done the right thing here. Trying to lift itself above the fray, above the politics between the two tours. And I think that's what the majors should be doing. They should be really holding themselves out. As above the politics and really striving to get the best fields possible. So I was really happy and pleased to see the special invites to those live players. I was probably surprised at a couple of the names that were on there. I didn't think Herbert would get an invite, but very happy to see that. And so we've got the seven special invites and that makes now a total of 16 Liv players in the field. So I think the PGA championship field will be better for it.

Jake Hower: 00:08:53

I think it's a good way for the PJ the PJ of America to do it. They haven't put in any permanent sort of exemptions or any live specific exemptions. So it's not a huge wind for. The live side, but it's good to at least see players being acknowledged. Yeah, this is, I think positive. It's going to be interesting to see how the us open and the open the RNA follow if they follow suit with any more exemptions.

Luke Manning: 00:09:20

That's right. And I think it's the PGA of America dipping their toe in. And also maybe leaning into the claim for having the strongest field in golf. We know that the players championship always claim to have the strongest field in golf. But given that the PGA Tour has banned anyone from live playing in the players championship it's opened up the door for the PGA of America to take that mantle.

Jake Hower: 00:09:44

Yep. And I've done it really well. Obviously a few changes they made moving from August into May puts a little bit more prominence on the championship and this now as well, this year by far, it will be the most the strongest field that we'll ever see in 2024. They've done a really good job. I've got some question marks over whether or not we should have. Four major championships in consecutive months, plus the players as well in terms of how hard it is for a player to get up for and stay up for four months in a row. But from a, from the perspective of the championship itself, they've done a very good job moving that forward. And I think the championship is becoming more and more prominent. It's, they might see themselves starting to get close, if not elevating above some of the others potentially.

Luke Manning: 00:10:30

And you talked about what might happen with the Open and with the US Open as well. Mike Wan talking about pathways for live players, et cetera. If things aren't resolved in the short term indicative of where things might go.

Jake Hower: 00:10:45

that's going to be really interesting because that's that interview he had he did start talking about pathways. It didn't, did he mention specific path or pathways for live outside of qualify

Luke Manning: 00:10:57

What I took from it was if we don't see a deal in the short term, we're going to have to look at the, at these pathways and what it might be so noncommittal in the sense of anything immediate or specific but certainly opening the door and giving himself some latitude and some leeway if need be.

Jake Hower: 00:11:18

now Rory's attempts to rejoin the PGA tour board was blocked. That interview he did, I think it was post first round of the Wells Fargo where he was questioned about it. He seemed quite positive and in a really good frame of mind about it. Having seen it, some of the comments, if you read them from the transcripts seem like he might've been angry or maybe taking the piss a little, but watching the interview itself, he was incredibly positive. I, I was surprised at how well he handled it and he spoke very well.

Luke Manning: 00:11:51

Yeah probably surprised that it was voted down pretty sensible move if he's got the relationship with Yassir that that he's alleged to have had, that he wouldn't have been welcomed back. But he spoke as he does often, he spoke very honestly about the outcome saying that it got complicated and it got messy that the proposal for him to return opened some old scar tissue and some old wounds that weren't able to be closed over. Obviously that sort of honesty is great to see. We want to see more of that from players. And Rory's been renowned for it in recent times, but nonetheless he has still made his way onto the transaction negotiation subcommittee. So he'll still be involved. Just not from a board perspective. Obviously there were players on the board that just didn't want him to return to the board. I think the scuttlebutt and the consensus is that it was probably the spieth cabal as it's being referred to that block the return.

Jake Hower: 00:12:55

It's a bit of a participation award though, isn't it? The the he's inclusion on the committee because he has no vote. So what's he going to, I don't know, like what he's like a secretary. He's going to come in and introduce you. See I don't know. It just seems, it seems a little bit strange to me. I don't know why he would accept that.

Luke Manning: 00:13:12

He must feel he can make some impact. Otherwise he probably, similar to Jimmy Dunn would have just bowed out and said I'm not going to waste my time here if I've got no ability to influence the outcomes. He must in some ways feel that he can do that. When I saw the transaction subcommittee, what really stood out to me though was the precarious position that I think Adam Scott is in. I doubt highly whether Adam will have any influence or any power as part of this this subcommittee, but if things go wrong and there's a terrible outcome from all this, he'll share equally in the ownership of that outcome. View is that he should get the F out of there as soon, as quickly as he can, but his name's been penned and he'll be part of that committee.

Jake Hower: 00:13:58

that is an interesting take. I hadn't even considered that, but you're right. Tiger likes to have pawns. In place that can take a lot of the blame that you've can't raise the main one really, isn't he?

Luke Manning: 00:14:11

I definitely think that Tiger's running a plausible deniability strategy here where he is pulling the strings from above but he's doing a very good job in creating layers to shield himself from any any criticism.

Jake Hower: 00:14:29

Now that whole side, the PGA tourist side is doing a very good job of extending this out. We're not seeing any improvements really in the product. We're not hearing talk about what's happening in 2025. They really need to start, we need to start seeing change because everyone's getting sick of it. And I think you mentioned Andy Johnson on the shotgun start was talking about how live at times is potentially producing a better product and the fans aren't going to remain loyal forever.

Luke Manning: 00:15:02

No, and Andy's point was that the better product in the end will continue to see Liv making market share gains, particularly whilst the PGA Tour is rudderless and in a bit of a mess in terms of which direction it's going to go. Having said that the people involved on the SSG side, they know sports, they know professional sports, they know fan engagement. So I think there must be work being done on the product in the background. There's probably a lot of water that needs to go under the bridge to get a good Agreement to changing the product and what it looks and feels like for fans, for investors, for broadcasters but I'd be shocked if SSG weren't leaning heavily into that in the, behind closed doors in the back rooms, given the level of investment that they've made.

Jake Hower: 00:15:55

It just seems like it's very hard to make this change. There's so many chefs in the kitchen and there seems to be a little bit of that old boys club. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. Like even the announcement of is it Joe Gorder who was named as the chairman of the PJ tour enterprises. He's, he was the, was it the CEO of Valero who were a long time tour sponsor. That to me reeks of. Pumping money into the tour for years and years. And here's the payoff. Here's a nice little cushy sort of chairman job. After you've looked after us, we will look after you now.

Luke Manning: 00:16:31

I think crony capitalism goes on everywhere and obviously the PGA Tour is no different. A lot of these appointments get done based on relationship. And what your relationship is obviously depends on the history that you've had. And if you've PGA Tour coffers, then. That puts you in a pretty solid position. And then if your views on the future and strategy of the PGA tour are aligned with those that matter, then it's a nice pathway to the top, really.

Jake Hower: 00:17:05

It's just, it's getting so frustrating because the product itself is suffering and I don't want to see the destruction of the tour. But as we get further and further into it You keep peeling back the layers and there's more, it's continually more. And if we look at how the PGA tour was structured, I think for years money is being siphoned away from the players to the different entities, like PJ to a superstore, Arthur Blank, who's one of the lead investors of SSG. He's essentially protecting his investment. In PGA Tour Superstore. You don't want to see the destruction of the PGA Tour for that reason. But it just seems like there are so many fingers in the pie all across the board and it's to the detriment of the product and the players.

Luke Manning: 00:17:49

And it gets back to the earlier point about the PGA Tour getting out of its own way. I don't think we'll see the destruction of the tour. Never back against the ability of Americans to innovate. And really, produce under pressure. And so whilst there's a lot of fumbling of the ball going on at the moment I don't think this the tour is going away. I don't think it will be destroyed. What it might be though, is a very American centric tour and it may well miss the opportunity to capitalize on demand for professional golf globally. And I think that's one of the biggest challenges that the tour has at the moment. the blinkers that some of the people in power have on around wanting to maintain the status quo and maintaining the status quo I think will just create an American tour and then a rest of the world tour and the prospects of a unified tour dwindle pretty significantly.

Jake Hower: 00:18:53

I don't think it's such a bad thing. There's obviously there's, there is plenty of investment dollars in the States, which has already been proved. The PIF, I think he's probably proving that there are, there's lots of money outside. So maybe the two tours or the sort of the US based tour is good for their fans. Maybe the world tour. Is good for everybody else. It means we're not going to see the best play against each other as much as you'd like to. But, maybe that's where we're ending up.

Luke Manning: 00:19:19

It might be where we end up. I think there would need to be a change in approach from what we're currently seeing from the PGA Tour. If we're to see a unification and the best players getting back together, playing against each other on a regular basis. One of the things I've been thinking about is is there a conflict of interest here between some that are in power and the long term future of the PGA Tour? What I mean by that is people like Tiger Woods personally have an interest in maintaining the status quo because under the status quo arrangement America is the tour. And the measure of success or the second most important measure of success behind major wins is PGA Tour

Jake Hower: 00:20:04

Two victories.

Luke Manning: 00:20:05

And so to preserve Tiger's legacy and also to maximize his achievements in the game maintaining the status quo actually does that for Tiger. So His personal interest could well be in direct conflict with what might be in the best interests long term for the tour. As Brandl has now come out and said, has, a deal has to be struck because in the end, money wins. It's a brutal reality. But if the PGA tour can only secure 1. 5 billion from SSG, it's just not going to be enough to compete. And the PIF will just double down their efforts to sign more big name players and to build Live into a bigger thing.

Jake Hower: 00:20:48

Yep. What did you think about Brandel's comments?

Luke Manning: 00:20:51

Pragmatic, I guess is the best way that you could describe them. Complete back flip would be also another accurate description but probably not surprised. And again he's looking at self-interest here, I'm sure underneath all of it. He, his meal ticket depends on the PGA tour surviving. And he sees the best way of it surviving is to not continue in this warfare with the Piff and with Liv, but to strike a deal.

Jake Hower: 00:21:18

How did you feel like he's obviously been very aggressive towards live players. If he's starting to accept this money now, except the fact that the PIF is investing in golf, should he should he step down?

Luke Manning: 00:21:32

I don't think he will. There, there is an argument for that. And this is the great challenge. Once you start introducing morals and politics into sport it all of a sudden can become a rod for your own back very quickly. Probably not a sensible play fit. For him to have gone down such a moralistic path. Jay did the same when he was trying to fend off the threat from Liv and from the PIF in the early stages before the framework agreement was landed. But the sports washing thing has to use for one of a better term, has washed away largely I think they misread the landscape there, particularly the global sporting landscape where Saudi Arabian money through Aramco and through other entities, it's all throughout other major sports and so to try and use that as a shield or a sword was just a silly play from the outset. Yeah.

Jake Hower: 00:22:28

Interesting personally, whether or not you could go as hard as he did. And then backflip, I think if we look at. His role at the golf channel and and with NBC what his goals are and what he's probably making his money from it's being controversial. It's eyeballs. So taking that particular stance and given the fact that his audience is a US based fans taking that stance and then backflipping is probably not going to impact his, profile with a fan it may impact the players. If there is some level of coming back together or he's essentially alienated anyone who's touched live. So whether or not that affects his ability to do his job, I don't know.

Luke Manning: 00:23:11

And ultimately, it'll probably come down to ratings. As you say, he's paid to be controversial, he's paid to have opinions, firm opinions and to put them out there in an uncompromising way, which he's done. If the ratings are fine with Brandel remaining in his chair, then, he'll probably remain there.

Jake Hower: 00:23:28

Okay. Before we move on. Is the PGA Tour securing a deal with the PIF?

Luke Manning: 00:23:34

Based on current approach, I can't see it happening.

Jake Hower: 00:23:37

I'm in agreeance. So let's take a look at the Wells Fargo. So I think probably led off really outside of Rory's comments in terms of the board. Probably the major the major controversy was Xander's drop in the first round.

Luke Manning: 00:23:52

Yeah, it was. Sprayed his tee shot right up against the boundary fence and was granted TIO relief. I was outraged personally myself. I know you, you delved into the conversation on X and probably ended up having a slightly different view to me. When you see where his drop was allowed to be taken, and where he was following the t shot coming to rest it just had a real stink about it. And, I, my mind goes to if that was in the club championships, would a member ever get that sort of relief? And I know we're talking about the cable on a on a tower that the relief was granted from. So it's a little bit artificial to use that analogy. But. I feel like the poor old club golfer gets no relief or no free relief, or it's very rare that you get free relief. Yet these touring pros seem to get it. all the time. And I made the comment on X, what was Cantlay's comment about these pros being pampered Fs and the and the rules officials bending over backwards. But but you had a different take, so let's hear what your thoughts were.

Jake Hower: 00:24:59

It's quite similar. It's maybe in terms of the interpretations, I'm all for policing of rules and if you don't like an outcome, maybe the rule needs to be changed now before seeing Johnson Wagner's essential recreation of this, I was also dubious. It looked to me like it was a Zander potentially. Trying to not lie, but tell little porkies about whether or not that was a shot he was going to play. And that, that I think is the gray area of a rule interpretation. It probably needs to be stamped out. Maybe what needs to happen is that the the rules officials don't even ask someone's opinion. They make the decision themselves as to whether or not a shot can be played or whatever. But. Yeah, my thing with it after seeing that was that all, the way the rules written it was all legal. If you don't like the rule, it needs to change.

Luke Manning: 00:25:56

I think there is some issues with the way the TI rule is written too broad, too much discretion they were talking about in the shotgun start, make him hit the shot. That he says he's going to hit, and if it hits the cable or it hits the tower, that's when you get your relief rather than before you actually hit the shot. I think there's some merit to that. I guess the contrasting argument would be that it's still a distraction having that obstruction, that temporary movable obstruction in your line of sight and in your field of aiming field.

Jake Hower: 00:26:30

The other thing I think on that is that these pro golf TIO reliefs, it's also potentially a liability problem. So if you've got fans involved and insurers on site, it's potentially something that's possibly a consideration that these rules have to be in place because, you can't knock a fan out or. Or you can't destroy a shotlink tower because it's so expensive to erect there. I don't know. Maybe that's why these this style of relief has to exist.

Luke Manning: 00:27:02

Yeah, it could be. And I'm not I'm not a golf rules official by any stretch of the imagination, but just back to your point about the Johnson Wagner explanation. It was interesting to see the PGA tour media machine going to into I have a drive after the backlash came on social media to get Johnson out there and explain what had actually happened. Were you confident where he played that shot from was actually where Xander's ball was? Because I felt like Xander's ball was a lot harder up against the fence.

Jake Hower: 00:27:34

Yeah, absolutely. I, yeah, again, you're playing definitely could have been that. I did think about that, whether or not they're, whether or not they were playing it from the same spot. Yeah.

Luke Manning: 00:27:44

Yeah, we didn't get that as part of Johnson's explanation, but I will say he did an excellent job in explaining how how it unfolded. And then he did an excellent job of hitting the shot too that was a good piece of content from the PGA tour.

Jake Hower: 00:27:57

They handled that really well. I thought, yeah, that was a really good way to do it because it clarified it. And if it didn't shoot it down a hundred percent, it went a fair way to actually making it acceptable. So Jay Day was in contention early as well, wasn't he?

Luke Manning: 00:28:12

Yeah, another quail hollow track specialist. He's won the Wells Fargo before and he plays well here. Got himself into contention early on. I think he was second after two rounds, but just really couldn't get it going on the weekend. By the end of the third round, he was seven shots back and finished, in outright fourth, but was never really in contention when it mattered. I do see that he's come out on social media saying that his game's trending in the right direction going into the major this week. So it will be interesting to see how he goes. Obviously a former PGA champion himself. But but generally the Aussies didn't make much of it this week at Quail Hollow.

Jake Hower: 00:28:51

Yeah, he's a, he's an interesting one since his dominant run at world number one he's always struggled. He's been in contention quite a lot really, but there's always been one round that has led him down where he hasn't been able to it's not like you have to play four great rounds to, to win a tournament, but he's one round that he's not playing well. He loses a tournament. And I fell for it a number of times in majors where I'd put a little bit of money on him and just didn't perform. There was just always one round that he fell apart and hopefully we see that turn around. But the trend I think is continuing at the moment.

Luke Manning: 00:29:25

Yeah, Jason's just never really been the same since he split ways from his former caddy, Colin Swatton. It'd be great to see them to reunite at some stage. Don't think it's likely. But as you say, we'd love to see Jason back to his best.

Jake Hower: 00:29:41

Yep. Now Rory put it all together, didn't he? That's that round on Sunday. Oh, that's certainly, even that after hole seven or eight, he no one was beating Rory.

Luke Manning: 00:29:52

No, no one was beating him. He really set the tone put the foot down and I think it was five birdies and two eagles in the round. Just incredible golf. And he really had the putter going and that's probably one of the things that you see with Rory when he doesn't contend or well, when he's back in the field, he's just not making the putts or he or his wedge game but this this week, everything was firing on all cylinders.

Jake Hower: 00:30:20

Yep. He's had it all working through the year at different times. So when he starting in the desert on the Euro tour at the start of the tour, where he or the start of the year where he won, I think he won in Dubai. Yep. He won in Dubai. So his wedge game looked as good as I've ever seen it. Back then now there was no sort of data that you could really look at to back it up, but just the, just the eye test, his wedge game looked incredible. And he was holding onto the driver a little bit even that early. And that seems to have been his major struggle. The early months of the season on the PGA tour is just getting that driver, but that seems to have come around. He doesn't look to have too many weaknesses. Physically at the moment.

Luke Manning: 00:31:01

One of the stats I was surprised to see at this week at Quail Hollow was that his driving accuracy was only around 50%. Obviously number one in driving distance. And I think still might have been number one or thereabouts in strokes gained off the tee. But his driving accuracy was at 50 percent which did surprise me. But his approach play. It was so good it didn't really matter. He was getting the ball on the greens and close no matter where he was leaving himself off the tee.

Jake Hower: 00:31:31

Yep. And those greens are a little bit firmer than what we've seen at Quail Hollow. So again, very interesting. He's maybe he's traditionally played very good golf in softer conditions, but Quail wasn't that at all. It yeah he's controlling his ball very good.

Luke Manning: 00:31:47

Agree with that.

Jake Hower: 00:31:49

Yep. Xander, he he did what everyone expected really, didn't he?

Luke Manning: 00:31:53

Yeah, just didn't fire when he needed to. The colloquial terms of house cat get thrown around about Xander. And it's hard to argue with that. I was always a huge believer that Xander would win a major. And here we are he's not had a major and If any, he's not really contended significantly. So he's got to he's got to be able to produce in those big moments. I think the broadcast with with Dottie and Immelman called him out and it, he's got the game to be able to do it. It's, I think, probably more a mental thing that, when the tournament's on the line, can he produce the best shots he needs to? And history would say not at the moment.

Jake Hower: 00:32:40

He doesn't seem to have a different gear. It all seems to be the same pace. He's very good. He's high level good, but he doesn't have, obviously Rory is probably the prime example who just has, So many gears but Xander, he just, I don't know. He's just whether or not he's being aggressive enough on a Sunday in contention. I don't know, but it just seems a little bit one paste in terms of his performance. You know what you're getting out of him? You're not getting anything different.

Luke Manning: 00:33:06

And that's the area for improvement in him is to be able to lock in on the back nine on Sunday and make the birdies, make the putts, make the clutch shots. I'm sure he's fully aware of it and he and his coaches are trying to work hard on it. It just hasn't come to fruition in the big moments yet.

Jake Hower: 00:33:27

Yep. Now moving on to the PGA championship, we have got the best golfer in the world, Scottish Effler, off the back of, his string of wins. Rory McIlroy is probably, he was number two in the world. And. Brooks Koepka, all three of them have won their last starts coming into what is probably the most anticipated now major of the year, I'm going to say, you don't get that sort of level of form between three of the four best golfers in the world at once.

Luke Manning: 00:34:01

Yeah. It's all come together nicely for the PGA championship. It's historically been a major that I've probably placed fourth. amongst the majors, but it's changing rapidly. The way that they're putting these fields together. And I think fortunately, as you've called out, they've got Scotty, Rory and Brooksy in, in winning form coming in, in the last few weeks. That's a recipe for a great tournament. And let's hope that they do deliver on that form. in the coming week. No surprise that the bookies have them as the favorites. Scotty very short at 5. Rory not far behind at 8. 75. And then Brooks at 16, I think there's a little bit of value there. Surprisingly that they've got Shoffley the same as Brooks. So I know who I'd be taking out of those those two. At 16.

Jake Hower: 00:34:52

Yeah, absolutely. He's just missing. Yeah. Brooks is, I think probably the pick in my eyes. But yeah, it's interesting. I was looking at Datagolf this morning, preparing for this and looking at the course profile for Valhalla and it essentially mirrors that of Quail Hollow. And another interesting one is Chapultepec. So it favors driving distance really good iron play and probably more, a little bit around the greens but doesn't necessarily require super strong putting. It doesn't necessarily require driving accuracy. So it's interesting some of the players that brings into contention. Obviously, John Rahm has performed incredibly well at his form has been reasonable but it, hasn't it been to the level that we saw, leading into or coming out of the 2023 Masters?

Luke Manning: 00:35:41

Yeah. I think Rambo's got a rough bout of criticism for not playing to his potential. In each of the live tournaments, he's been a chance. He's been right up there. But I think the expectation is that he would have won by now. That's a harsh expectation, but probably one that he places on himself as well. So he really, he could do anything. As you say, if the course fit is good, he won't be far away. But just hearing you talk about those sort of qualities or what's, What success looks like at Valhalla, it made me think of Bryson being, being great value at about 29. Great distance off the tee. I think he's got a very good and probably underrated short game and also with his putting. So he really could be a smokey.

Jake Hower: 00:36:29

Two others not on purpose, but Jaco Newman and Dean Burmester, both incredibly long, but both very long a little bit harder to, to assess their games just with the lack of stats and data around live. Data golf doesn't have much on either of them. In the last couple of years, but Dean is obviously Dean and Yarko Bryson are all up there for driving distance. Both very good iron players. Dean is probably not as strong as Yarko around, around the greens and on the greens, but Burmester is at about 180 on Betfair. So that's offering pretty good value. And with Yarko, yep. So I think Dean's probably my smokey, but having said that on the PGA Tour side, maybe players like a Jake Knapp would also probably offer a little bit of value.

Luke Manning: 00:37:20

Yeah. Hits the ball a mile. Howell Lee is still pretty green in terms of majors. And that's probably my question mark over Yarko. I was very. Bullish on Yako for the Masters had great form leading in and he didn't really do too much, unfortunately, you could see he was very disappointed in his play. He was really grinding hard to try and get a great result at Augusta, but it just wasn't happening for him there. And so my jury's out on Yako in the majors and at the moment. But no doubts he'll he'll prove me wrong now.

Jake Hower: 00:37:58

I hope so. I think the champions and, it's remained to be seen whether he's won, but he has all the traits of one and this applies to Rahm as well. I think the criticism and their performances, I think would really drive them and we know the very best in any sport tend to rise to the top in a biggest events. It'd be very unsurprising to see either of those guys right up the very top of the

Luke Manning: 00:38:25

leaderboard. And then just on Dean Burmester a lot of people won't know too much about Dean. He's a golfer that flies under the radar unless you're a tragic like us and you pay a lot of close attention to it. Yep. But I remember seeing him at Live Adelaide last year in 2023 and was really impressed with the quality of his ball striking and his just generally his game. So it's not so surprising to me now to see him starting to poke his head up on, on leaderboards and get some wins or, threaten to get some wins. So be an interesting test for him. Great opportunities. Been, given the special invite. And from a South African point of view, I'm sure they hope he makes it pay.

Jake Hower: 00:39:10

Yeah, absolutely. It's weather conditions are quite interesting. It looks like we're going to get a little bit of rain, potentially. All days. Friday is looking like it's probably the worst of the bunch at the moment.

Luke Manning: 00:39:24

Yeah, I wasn't sure what the weather was doing. I know that weather permitting, the course is likely to play firm and fast from, reports on the ground over there. The course has recently changed its bent fairways over to a type of zoysia grass. And so this this species of zoia bounces a lot more. So they expect the ball to roll out in the fairways a lot more regularly. So I hope that the rain holds off and we do get the firm and fast conditions. 'cause I think that tends to bring in or allow the best golfers to rise to the top.

Jake Hower: 00:40:02

What do you think of a Abe or Abe in terms of his chances?

Luke Manning: 00:40:07

Look, you played exceptionally well at the Masters coming in at second there. He's got a knee injury, or he withdrew from Quail Hollow this past week, gone with a knee injury. How significant is that? I guess we don't really know. He's absolutely got that. The driving game to be in contention here hits it a mile hits it pretty straight as well. So that could be a lethal combination. The talk is that some of the aim points for the players will need to be adjusted based on the firm conditions. So accuracy with your driving does then become a bit more of a premium. It won't surprise me at all to see him You know, contending and being up there in the top 10 or top five.

Jake Hower: 00:40:51

Yeah, I'd probably agree with that. What I'm interested to see is the pressure put on Scotty a little bit. So I think he's clearly the best golfer in the world at the moment. Like he's just heads and shoulders above everybody else. It's a few things remain is putting has been he's got some technical problem with his putting now. He seems to make the, puts that matter, but he misses, he still misses some puts that he should make and they're not potentially, like he's, maybe this is on a Thursday or a Friday that he misses the one or two sort of puts he should have made, but, so it's not under the gun on the Sunday, but those putts are still gonna matter in a championship like this. That's number one with him that I want to see how he's going with his putting. Number two, I want to see him under pressure on Sunday someone like McElroy with Brooks, with Ram with them taking it to him because the masters and in most of his other wins, I haven't seen him contending when he's in and around there, he's either come from way back or he's already been out in front and. He's similar to what Rory was on, on Sunday. Once Scott is in front, you're not catching him.

Luke Manning: 00:42:00

Yeah, I'd love to see it go down to the wire. Be great to see a playoff. And, your point around Scotty once he's in front, he gets the job done. I think if you go back to his Masters win last year sorry, two years ago, yeah Smithy was challenging him until that third hole and then he chipped in for a for birdie on the third hole after they were short sighted on the left side there and then that was the end of it. He just ran away with it from there, but really hoping that we have a close finish. Let's get the best golfers all applying pressure to each other and have a grandstand coming home.

Jake Hower: 00:42:41

Yep. Over under for the live players in the top 10, where do you think that line needs to be set?

Luke Manning: 00:42:48

So there's 17 in the field. I think there's about 156 in the field totally. So let's say it's roughly 10%. Look, I think the line's probably over under 2. 5. What do you think?

Jake Hower: 00:43:02

Yeah, you'd be thinking 30 percent of the top 10 would be to me benchmarking. So I'm happy to accept that. I'm taking you over that.

Luke Manning: 00:43:11

You're taking me over. Who are you three that are going to go over or more?

Jake Hower: 00:43:15

Brooks, Smith, Rahm, you can keep going. It's going to be deep this year. I think it's going to be pretty, it's going to be a good performance from the live guys.

Luke Manning: 00:43:24

Yep. And then I guess a couple of fun cuts or miss cut. I'll get your views on Tiger. Does he make the cut or miss the cut?

Jake Hower: 00:43:33

He makes the cut.

Luke Manning: 00:43:34

JT? Misses. Ooh, that's a big call. It's in his home, hometown, Louisville, Kentucky. What about Jordan? Nah,

Jake Hower: 00:43:43

I want to see him make the cut. I'm ready for Jordan to perform in a major again.

Luke Manning: 00:43:47

And of course, the the social media superstar blocky. Does he miss the cut or does he make the cut?

Jake Hower: 00:43:54

My God, for my next 12 months, he has to miss the cut. We, I can't, we cannot, we can't go back there. No, we can't do this for another 12 months. Seriously.

Luke Manning: 00:44:04

What if he top 15s again, or he top 10s?

Jake Hower: 00:44:08

He's got his own documentary this year.

Luke Manning: 00:44:10

Yeah,

Jake Hower: 00:44:10

he's for a top 15. He's a professional golfer.

Luke Manning: 00:44:14

A amazing that there's a documentary they call it that's been made about him.

Jake Hower: 00:44:19

I was watching the the 2014 official film for at Valhalla. Obviously Rory's win just because I wanted to watch a full round, the full final round, but it doesn't exist. As far as I can find it. So watching this film and Blocky's featured in the 2014 edition. He's the he's the needle mover.

Luke Manning: 00:44:36

Apparently the content we never knew we needed. Blocky, Blocky content.

Jake Hower: 00:44:41

Oh, crazy. Now who's the top Australian? Who's finishing top?

Luke Manning: 00:44:45

Yeah, I'm not sure that this is a course that sets up well for Smithy. I think Smithy needs the open fairways and a bit more trick and challenge around the greens to really separate his strengths from the field. So I'm not going with Cam. It'll probably prove me to be an idiot, but I'm not going with Cam. I think I'm going to go with Jaday. Jaday and I we've been we were besties back when he was on his run I feel it's time for us to, to bond again. And this major is going to be the one, so I'm going with Jado.

Jake Hower: 00:45:20

Yeah. That's a good choice. He's in good form. And he's looking good as well.

Luke Manning: 00:45:24

Okay. So I was just going to say, can we quickly talk about his outfits here? Are you a Melbourne guy or not a Melbourne guy?

Jake Hower: 00:45:31

I'm really not. I like that, that that fit he had on. Was it maybe Thursday or Friday? That was a pretty good, I like that look. I'm like, Oh, geez, could I rock that on the golf course? I don't know, but the masters is not good. He's

Luke Manning: 00:45:45

The jacket they asked him to take off. So someone put it perfectly on X, I think they said Would I wear that stuff voluntarily? Hell no. But if someone's going to pay me to wear that shit sign me up. So I think I'm in that camp.

Jake Hower: 00:46:01

I think that's I hope we do start seeing a little bit of that sort of, fall over into recreational golf, because I think that is one thing we're wearing. We're wearing 1950s, 1960s style gear on the golf course. So it would be good to see that get updated a little bit.

Luke Manning: 00:46:17

Yeah. And that's all part of the game modernizing. There's definitely going to be some clubs that just won't come at that. And they will have particular membership bases and demographics. But I think clubs that want to grow their membership base they can lean into some of those things.

Jake Hower: 00:46:34

Anthony Kim on X is good, isn't it?

Luke Manning: 00:46:38

It's a great follow. Certainly going very hard down the gratitude and appreciation angle, but I guess it's good to say he's been in the depths of despair throughout the last 12 years or parts of the last 12 years. And he's really open with how he's appreciating and being Grateful for the good things that are happening to him now.

Jake Hower: 00:47:03

Yeah, it's all been very positive on X, except for his attack on Brando.

Luke Manning: 00:47:09

Yeah, which kind of did come from left field. I've been really enjoying reading his replies to all the X trolls out there that have been. Criticizing him for going on a 12 year coke bender and the like he's got really witty and non personal retorts. I think that they want to play the man, not the ball. And he's got a way of responding to take the oxygen out of their attacks, but I was very surprised at the Brandel one where he was more the aggressor and more on the front foot. I liked seeing it, and I thought Brandel responded with a pretty good touche as well, which wasn't too grubby, but just gave him, it gave him enough of a backhand to know that he wasn't going to take that lying down.

Jake Hower: 00:47:56

Yeah, it's good. I think this whole website and the piff and a Saudi money is sound me ever so slightly on brand. I've always liked him. Like he's, I don't agree with a lot of what he says, but I like the fact that, he's saying it and he's making me think in different ways. So listen, it's going to be good to see the back of this or at least some healing starting to happen because The focus, the negative focus across the golf world is something I'm a bit over now.

Luke Manning: 00:48:26

And that's a common sort of theme that we do see from a lot of people. Although I can, I do think it can be extrapolated too far into the whole pro golf is broken narrative. Pro golf's going through a period of significant change. It's not broken. And I do think honestly, it will come out the back end of this in a much better and stronger state, but it's going to be uncomfortable for a while.

Jake Hower: 00:48:53

It will, yes. But as you say, like it's not at all broken. We're seeing a lot more bed, a lot more golf around the world being played in different time zones, which I think is important. Golf is not a U S sport. It's a global sport. And I do feel for the U S fan because they are seeing their world turned completely upside down. They're losing access to the best players. But at the end of the day, it's a sacrifice that I'm glad that they're making because it benefits everybody else in the world.

Luke Manning: 00:49:23

A hundred percent agree.

Jake Hower: 00:49:24

Yep. I think we've covered most things there. Luke, have you got anything else?

Luke Manning: 00:49:29

No, just one last thing for people to get involved in the conversation. You can follow Jake and I on X it's at jcower. And then also you can follow me at the shankshow underscore. Shankshow also has an Instagram. Page or profile that you can follow the shankshow underscore. And if you'd like to subscribe to the shankshow newsletter, you can do so using the link in the bios of my ex profile or Instagram. But we'd love you to get on board and join in the conversation. Tell us where we're wrong. Tell us where we're right. And give us feedback on how we're going.

Jake Hower: 00:50:06

Absolutely. Good luck and I hope we have a good tournament this week and yeah, we'll speak again in, in seven days time, hopefully having seen Kepka raise his fourth PGA championship trophy.

Luke Manning: 00:50:21

Or an Aussie.

Jake Hower: 00:50:22

Or an Aussie yes. All right, Luke. Thanks, mate. Bye bye.

Luke Manning: 00:50:26

See you, Jake.

Jake Hower: 00:50:27

Bye bye.