In the Clubhouse: Insights from Bill Donald, GM at Cathedral Lodge on Golf Club Management

Jake Hower: 00:00:00

Welcome to Beyond the Tour. I'm Jay Cowher. With me today is someone I've been meaning to get on to have a chat with for a little while. Bill Donald. How are you?

Bill Donald: 00:00:08

Hi, Jake. I'm very good. Thank you very much. And thank you very much for inviting me onto your show.

Jake Hower: 00:00:13

Yeah, absolutely. I think I come across you first in and around the live Adelaide period of time. I come across you on X. And you're talking about your experience of traveling across to live. And, you have come out from Ireland and you're the GM of Cathedral Lodge Golf Club here in Australia.

Bill Donald: 00:00:33

Absolutely correct, Jake.

Jake Hower: 00:00:35

How long have you been at in Melbourne for?

Bill Donald: 00:00:38

Only six months. So previously I was at Loch Lomond, General Manager of Loch Lomond Golf Club for 13 years. And before that, the K Club Director of Golf for four and a half years. this is my 28th year in golf. My God, I'm getting old. And just the allure of Cathedral the fact that it's got such huge potential. That's what attracted me out to your beautiful country. Of course, just north of Melbourne.

Jake Hower: 00:01:11

What do you mean when you say it's got huge potential?

Bill Donald: 00:01:14

I think when you look at golf clubs, and maybe private clubs as well, I look for something called heart and soul. So something that's got a bit of a vibe, that's got something that you can to. I think cathedrals got that in absolute buckets and spades. the membership's a terrific membership. They're very social. They're quite close knit. Community group. But of course, memberships restricted and limited on. I just really like Their approach to golf and their approach to life as well. that's what I look for. I want to enjoy myself, it's a job, that can bring a lot of challenges to it. and you can go into the lion's den, somewhat, I have to say what, David and Sonia Evans have produced out here at Cathedral, is remarkable.

Jake Hower: 00:02:06

Maybe, touch on for our listener a little bit about the experience for members.

Bill Donald: 00:02:11

Yeah. offers this, private, exclusive club. you must be invited by a member, to have a game at Cathedral or to get the opportunity to play at Cathedral Lodge. So the members are in control, which I think is a good thing. what we have here is some beautiful properties where people can stay. are some privately owned homes as well, and, there are a number of dormy rooms where, as I say, people can relax, put their feet up, but also we have this super clubhouse, With the most amazing view of the ranges at Cathedral. Greg Norman was the course designer, and this view is spectacular. It's very difficult to describe, but it's just, I think, one of the best views in World Golf.

Jake Hower: 00:03:02

The concept of Cathedral really, it's relatively unique in Australia. That's not really, not so in the rest of the world, is it? it seems to be becoming more and more common. New Zealand, you've got places like Tara Iti and Cape Kidnappers. over in the UK and Ireland, is it a lot more common over there, this style of club?

Bill Donald: 00:03:20

not overly.

Jake Hower: 00:03:21

Yep.

Bill Donald: 00:03:22

to get this question a fair amount when I was at Loch Lomond because it was private. There are a few. half a dozen or so, that are private that I can think of the top of my head. and. people would say, we can't get access. Loch Lomond's a national park, and then you've got this golf club and we can't get access and we feel as if we're slightly shortchanged, about that. But, I would explain that, there are. in Ireland, there's 300 golf clubs and in the rest of, if you like, the UK, if you want to put it like that, or the British Isles, there are hundreds and hundreds of golf clubs. So you've got lots and lots of choice. and it's not as if, You don't have a choice to go and play public golf courses or other golf courses. You can pay a green fee and get onto. So I think there's room for every kind of, golf club of whatever ilk you want to be and therefore private. does exist, huge in number, but, do exist mainly, more so in America, I think, but, yeah, for Australia, it does appear to be relatively unique, but not unique, around the world, but certainly, as I say, small in number, but that's okay. plenty of choice to you.

Jake Hower: 00:04:35

What's got you into the golf industry?

Bill Donald: 00:04:39

I've just released, a series of podcasts of who'd be a golf manager. I was in England at the time and a different career entirely. a friend of mine phoned me up said, this particular golf club called Clandy Boy Golf Club in Northern Ireland. I was looking for a general manager and I had a background in hospitality. and, I'd done a little bit of managing, but I was quite young. I was in mid twenties. and, my father had a connection with this golf club as well. And I knew quite a few of the members. although I was just outside London, I decided to apply I got the job. And I was their first general manager and I was very pleased to be. And I really enjoyed it and moved on to Hilton Group. and then, on to a place called locker and L O U G H E R N E. And that's where we signed a very young Rory McIlroy, which, fortunately try and still trying to recover from that U S open result. and, we signed Rory at 15 and a half, just before he turned pro, and the first two majors he won had locker and on the front of the bag. So I knew the family and you Jerry. and Rory, young Rory as well. And of course, he's gone on to do great things. Though, I think, us Rory fans are suffering slightly. But he'll bounce back. He'll definitely bounce back.

Jake Hower: 00:05:59

Yeah, I think he will. it was a little bit of a tough watch.

Bill Donald: 00:06:01

Oh, my God.

Jake Hower: 00:06:03

So tell me then, what does it involve? Like I'd imagine there's lots of different aspects. maybe give our listener a little bit of a broad overview of what running a golf club involves.

Bill Donald: 00:06:15

I think first and foremost, have a responsibility to, either the proprietor or members, or both, where you have to provide some guidance, you have to gather, evidence through member surveys staff surveys or financial results as well. and you have to try, I think you have a responsibility. to be able to take the membership stroke owners through a journey of how the club is performing you have to be accountable for that? But of course, you've got the usual day to day management, which is of staff. I've got the catering, You've got the golf shop. a meet and greet concierge service. an events team and an administration set up. So it is like a mini business.

Jake Hower: 00:07:04

Yes.

Bill Donald: 00:07:05

you're in the hospitality industry. So if I'm in the golf industry, that's technically true, but actually we're in the hospitality industry. So if you think about. We all avail of different hospital aspects of hospitality. it's no different in a golf club. You have all those different hospitality and you have to pull them together and you have to present the club in the best way that you can. So you have all those challenges of dealing with people and members as well and proprietors and expectations. But you have a job to take everybody through a particular journey.

Jake Hower: 00:07:39

Yep. So you're talking about, getting Rory McIlroy and signing him. presumably the organization or the golfing program there was a lot larger, with, much larger budgets and maybe what you've dealing with at a place like Cathedral. how would the two be different to think, how is running Cathedral different to running a bigger operation? To what you've done in the past.

Bill Donald: 00:08:04

I think there's things that you have by running a business. So payroll percentage. So therefore similar same applies if you're running a Hilton or a Loch Lomond or a cathedral. So it's your payroll percentage is always going to be important that you have it within your budget. I would say that Cathedral, with a smaller amount of staff, is much more homely, home from home, and also, do have a family type feel to it. So when you get a family type feel, people can be very invested, and, also, you get a sort of, if you get it wrong, a family can fall apart as we know. but if you get it right, you have those different sort of emotions of a smaller club and a smaller team. And every action you take can have a consequence that is felt throughout the club. So while it could be in food and beverage. They'll still feel it in a pro shop and an administration and in events because it's a small team. Larger teams such as Hilton and Loch Lomond as well. K Club. I was at the K Club and they had large, 250 odd members of staff at Loch Lomond, for example, are large clubs and You took, you always take a helicopter view, Jake, but you took

Jake Hower: 00:09:30

Yes.

Bill Donald: 00:09:31

view of the larger clubs, so therefore you had people in position to carry out what their responsibilities were, and then they filtered what information they wanted to me, on a, hopefully a regular basis. Here you're literally getting the information up close and personal because you're in the kitchen or you're in the bar or you're whatever, you're more accessible I think as well. and I think that there's a certain exhilaration to that of managing a smaller club. It's definitely personal.

Jake Hower: 00:09:59

Yes. is there a focus, I wouldn't imagine focus on marketing per se, but in terms of sales, is it a lot of sales with that sort of pipeline for a cathedral versus the K club, how does that aspect differ?

Bill Donald: 00:10:12

It's a really good question, Jake, and sales and marketing goes through every organization

Jake Hower: 00:10:17

Yeah,

Bill Donald: 00:10:17

irrelevant what it is. It's just that your product price mix is one. So we've got a quality product. How do you price it? so that's a challenge that every organization has, also communication to the members is vital. And I find that out over my years involved in golf and business that you have to ensure that members are well informed, so that also falls into obviously communication and marketing. and also your materials and your products that you sell, in the pro shop or whatever have to be of a particular standard that suits the club that you're managing. so actually sees and how first impressions, you answer the telephone. Yeah, it's actually similar rules apply throughout. I have a background in sales and marketing and, I'm aware of the importance, of that sort of, sales and marketing mix that you must have in every organization.

Jake Hower: 00:11:21

I'd imagine, it would be, not necessarily targeted, but if you're thinking of, members, guests, any impression you're giving them, and of course the club is representing the member really, aren't they, when they've got guests involved.

Bill Donald: 00:11:33

that's right. And the key to it is make sure the guest feels like a member, and that's the key. And if they feel that. We don't distinguish, then, you get a very positive result.

Jake Hower: 00:11:45

How do you find that the Australian golf market is different to UK and Ireland?

Bill Donald: 00:11:50

I can see, obviously the golf industry per se, Jake, we have this camaraderie and there are things that are very, similar, of course, the sports similar, and, there are things that you think, I could be in Ireland or Scotland or America, but I'm in Australia and similar rules apply. And what I've seen, maybe culturally, it's sharpening me up, a bit as well is that, from what I've seen that Aussies, you attack the golf game, my God, you go out from the very first, blue and you are really hurtling for very competitive, sharp. and, think that, maybe I've seen it more sociable and it's very sociable over here as well, but, there is a good competitiveness to it. You guys are very, competitive and I like that. I like that. so that's one thing that I've noticed, in particular. I think that, sand built some of the best golf in the world. Australia's produced some of the best golfers in the world. The one thing that and maybe this is not quite answering your question directly that I find absolutely astonishing is that, The Australian Open has fallen away, it appears, to when I remember it, particularly in the 80s and 90s, and I'm friendly with Ronan Rafferty, and I think Ronan won the Australian Open, or certainly he's won in Australia a couple of times, and I find it, just sad. That seems to be the case, which is why I guess live have come in and it's been a massive success in Adelaide because the country starved of top golf. And it shouldn't be. Australia should be one of the top names and hopefully when a world tour, which it will happen, Australia is definitely involved in that. I'm sure they will be involved.

Jake Hower: 00:13:43

from my perspective there, I think one of the biggest issues is you always get a diehard who will go and watch anything. Like I've been involved in golf since 2015 and I will attend wherever possible, any sort of top level golf events. Amateur events, top

Bill Donald: 00:13:57

Sure.

Jake Hower: 00:13:57

But the general fan as a rule is probably attracted to seeing the very best play. and one thing we've lacked here in the last sort of 15, 20 years is the opportunity to see the very best play. So I think that's where Liv is maybe able to capitalize on a little bit. It's disappointing to see what's happening with the Australian Open, but, you guys are putting on a really great event now that you've run for a couple of years, the Cathedral Invitational.

Bill Donald: 00:14:25

Yeah.

Jake Hower: 00:14:27

tell me a little bit around the backstory of that, what was the goal in starting that and putting on that particular event?

Bill Donald: 00:14:33

Yeah, it's been an incredible success and all credit to the team here who's put it on for two years in a row. No mean feat. If you think about it, it's not so therefore it was the team at Cathedral that actually had to put it on. It was an awful lot of work. But it was the brainchild of David Evans, the proprietor, and he wanted to talk to us. Level tournament at Cathedral. I guess the spinoffs are, you're allowed to come and watch as a spectator. So it was opening up the club. he wanted to have top level competition, which he achieved. Adam Scott won, the Cathedral Invitational last year. Cam Smith played in it. Leash plays in it, and plethora of other people, and that's an incredible achievement, a sort of a private club, which is, is cathedral accessible. by chopper. it's a bit of a drive from Melbourne I attended the second event and I wasn't employed here at the time and I was absolutely blown away by the organization. the field spectators were terrific as well. David a bit of a community opened up to the community. He's very aware of being, a good community person as well, which I think he's achieved. also for his own benefit, as a huge sports fan. bringing something, of that ilk to cathedral. was such joy to him, and you're in this game to enjoy yourself as well, and I think he ticked a lot of boxes, it exceeded expectations for sure, it was a world class field. there's

Jake Hower: 00:16:17

where logistically possible putting on in the future?

Bill Donald: 00:16:19

Yeah. And if it is possible, I'd say do it, there's good connections, particularly with Adam Scott and others as well, and they really love Cathedral Lodge. I think there's every, opportunity for it to happen again, Jake, whether it becomes a bit like. P. McManus at Adair Manor, every

Jake Hower: 00:16:37

Yeah.

Bill Donald: 00:16:38

or every three years or two years or whatever that might settle into that sort of vibe. but I think that it's been such a success that let's hope there's another one coming up, maybe in a year's time or so.

Jake Hower: 00:16:49

where do you see like the success of Cathedral? I think it's seen, or what else in Australia is there? Like maybe, Alaston to a certain. extent, maybe down here, capital. Potentially, I guess there wouldn't be too many other courses like that in Australia, really outside of the Royals.

Bill Donald: 00:17:07

Yeah, no, it's, Norm was here not that long ago and, it was great to get an opportunity to have a chat with him. I'd never met him before. And, he was waxing lyrical about Cathedral and the golf course and why wouldn't you? It is amazing. It's incredible. And, I did distinctly get the feeling that, It was pretty unique. I

Jake Hower: 00:17:30

Yeah.

Bill Donald: 00:17:32

it's just to my right, actually, as we're speaking at the moment, the sun shining is beautiful, the setting, Jake, is just unbelievable. Loch Lomond setting is hard to beat, as well, the just set in the two valleys, gives a different feel. I know Celtic Manor they're in the valleys, massive, Celtic Manor in Wales, held the Ryder Cup. it's massive. I wouldn't compare. To compare, I think as well, but it is set in the valley, but to be set in two valleys is, just something else. It's, really unique. And I don't know if that's totally unique and world golf. So I guess what David, and Greg Norman have achieved and feels to me very, unique.

Jake Hower: 00:18:16

Yeah, it certainly does. you guys, I think again, looking at social, have a, do you have an alliance, not an alliance, but there's a few events on with other clubs, I think Tara Iti is one each year, isn't it?

Bill Donald: 00:18:28

Yeah. Yeah. That seems to be a very close, association. I look forward to going over at some stage of Tara Eady and, really looking forward to that. yeah, there's a close association between, both clubs. and I think, there's a like mindedness as well. and of course that's what you're looking for, isn't it?

Jake Hower: 00:18:45

Yeah.

Bill Donald: 00:18:46

of clubs with plenty of hookups, but I'm, at times not sure that they both share the same values. I think that I can honestly say in this case that both clubs do appear to share the same values and goals and objectives, it's a tremendous link.

Jake Hower: 00:19:03

How do you go, because Thornton, as you said, it's a little bit out of Melbourne. How do you go in terms of staffing?

Bill Donald: 00:19:08

it's a good question and, again, if I go back to Loch Lomond, we set an objective to be a preferred employer, there are people around the area and Alexandra has a population of about 4, 000 And our aim is to be a preferred employer. So therefore we are going to launch which is very exciting a graduate scheme We're going to offer two places for two graduates to be trained and golf Management on hospitality. So by the time they finish the two year program here, they'll be well set on. I think we need to be seen as an educator and we need to be seen as a facilitator for people to springboard on to their career on. We need to play a significant role in that on. We talk a lot about staff engagement. We talk a lot about benefits for staff how can we be seen in as positive a light as possible on it is a real thing. And yes, we are rural. But I know if we hit those particular marks, we will have People very keen to come and join the Cathedral Revolution. and I think that anybody listening, Jake that's involved in running a club or is going to go into golf management or whatever, your staff are everything. They are absolutely every, you cannot do or achieve anything without good staff. and they should be the top priority. So we actually take it exceptionally seriously. And, I'm very excited for next year. or for next season, I should say. it looks as if we've got a real top quality line up of staff. But this particular graduate, scheme will be launched within the next month or so. And I think that's going to be a real game changer as well for us. we're very, excited about it.

Jake Hower: 00:21:03

yeah, so you talk about seasons now we're in the middle of winter at the moment, we're in winter. I would imagine, so you've got two things, two aspects that you've got, number one, you've got the seasons. number two, being outside of Melbourne, it's probably not, the primary sort of. course that many of your members would, play at. how do you find that? Is it, are you busy over the period of a particular week? So do you have surges? How does that differ to somewhere else you've been involved with?

Bill Donald: 00:21:31

Yeah. so Loch Lomond was closed in January and

Jake Hower: 00:21:35

Yep.

Bill Donald: 00:21:36

golf course reopened again in April. So here we're closed in July, and we open second week in August, but I have to say, and the day's no different, it's glorious sunshine, and there are people about and actually last weekend we were sold out, which was I think the first time they've achieved that in June. So all the rooms were taken and the restaurant was packed. there is a market for it. at Loch Lomond, dropped the prices for accommodation. We've done the same for the last two weeks here. but it's very, weather dependent, but the weather looks good. And they tell me this time last year, it was a complete wipeout. So we're definitely seem to be benefiting from an Indian summer. and, the, activity is good. Jake and to be fair, we are absolutely delighted because, when I arrived, it was a bit like, June, we'll be looking at each other and it's not going to be particularly vibrant. My God, the weekends are great. And, as I say, the last weekend, it was sold out signs of members and guests, great atmosphere. it's really, important to try and. sure the season, extends as long as possible. And we have spent some significant amount of money on drainage. Lock Lomond was the same, and here is the same. So that drainage is pretty deep. and, making a big difference. Not that this had been used that much actually recently, but when it comes to it, it'll pay back. for sure the investment. It's a good investment and it's making the course playable for longer, and I think that's key.

Jake Hower: 00:23:15

is tourism something that the club is interested in, terms of, golf tourism, inbound golf tourism at all, or is it.

Bill Donald: 00:23:22

Yeah, no, you've got to be invited by a member. So guess that, that's not going to preclude or ude anybody in that industry. but it'll be under the auspices of being invited by a member. You can't profiteer, so that's, seen, it's not allowed to ride off the back of a private club or any club like that. I guess that it can happen, but, not sure we'll see too much, in the way of tourism, Cathedral.

Jake Hower: 00:23:50

yeah, it's, I think, so I guess the one that I look at is something like a Tara Iti, which essentially is a private club as well, but they have the ability to go and play, to stay and play, if you're willing to pay, the price to do And that's essentially a one off as well, I believe. So it's a one time experiential program.

Bill Donald: 00:24:11

Castle in, up, Scotland. I think they have a tea time a day. Renaissance, which hosts the Scottish Open. There's something similar and they have to have some access to the public, has to have some access to that golf course, or else the Scottish government who used to certainly part fund the Scottish open, wouldn't then be a partner. so there are anomalies to this and I cathedral hasn't gone down that line. may it go down that line? for me, it's nice to keep it private, on a selfish basis, and for members to stay in that sort of control, but I think if it did go to unaccompanied, is slightly different.

Jake Hower: 00:24:55

yeah.

Bill Donald: 00:24:55

can, and a lot of American clubs do this. So you're a member, so you can book a tea time. There's a few available, per week. And you book a tea time for four of your friends to come, but it's you that books at the member. maybe there's something there, but at this moment in time, you can't do that either. So it really is truly exclusive.

Jake Hower: 00:25:12

we're benefiting at the moment from essentially a COVID influx of golfers in the industry. So golf around the world is incredibly popular, How have you found previously that, you've been able to attract and, maintain memberships in clubs?

Bill Donald: 00:25:29

while at the K Club, the economic fallout of the subprime mortgage market, late 2007 2008 was an absolute killer, Ireland in particular suffered. and just economically people couldn't afford or, had to, something had to give. So you've got a cost of living crisis, something has to give. And normally it's your, home entertainment you retain, you hold on to. but sometimes it's the, memberships of clubs that I'm afraid are expendable. and there have been peaks and troughs, and I can remember attending, a conference, in Dublin, and it was Dermot Desmond, who owned Celtic Football Club, who was speaking, and Dermot gives very, few lectures, but he's a hugely fascinating individual, and he said it is as simple as this. So that, supply exceeds demand and some golf clubs are just going to have to go. And he was, right. Really as, as terrible as it seems. he, definitely was right. And then golf ebbed and flowed. I thought mid market golf clubs got squeezed. So you had your. public golf courses, which might have been 20 bucks to play around a golf and then you do your exclusive golf clubs that seem to be okay. And then you had your royal clubs as you guys have as well, and they were, you couldn't get into them that, they had a sort of a large waiting list. So they always seem to be, and it was the middle clubs that were getting squeezed. And that certainly was the case up until COVID. and then all of a sudden there was a boom, Time again in golf, and then it was really up to the club to be able to, retain, those additional members. And I think quite a few of them have, and while you can see a drift back to the transient golfer. So the guy or girl that wants to play rock up and play a golf. Course and go for the cheaper option or whatever. They have a whole stack of choices, so they don't need to be a member, but you don't get your handicap either. So that's something you have to bear in mind. COVID was definitely a boom. I'm not sure that I've seen too much outside of the fact that it was COVID to say that golf has been promoted, in a very. Positive way that has brought Participation in at such huge numbers, it definitely, I think, was, down to COVID and people falling back in love with golf that maybe walked away from, now retention, as I mentioned, is absolutely key, but for the likes of Loch Lomond, the quality that they had there as a waiting list, and the product's a good one, Cathedral, There seems to be demand for the product here and it's also an excellent product. So is that market top tier that are interested in that sort of quality. and it's just back to the cost of living, Jake, and with oil and energy prices. The squeeze is maybe back on, and there could be a drift away again from, golf clubs. the point that I made, the first golf club I managed I was absolutely convinced and it's going to sound obvious, if you've got members using your golf club for food and beverage or spending secondary spend. when it came to renewing their membership, they're much more likely to do it. Whether it's a rock up on a Saturday, get out of the car, change their shoes, play a game of golf, get back into the car and go home. Yes. I see that they've enjoyed a game of golf, but really hasn't added much value to their life. A game of golf has, and the competition has, and their camaraderie, their mates. And that might be good enough, I wouldn't like to risk it, without, if they felt that they couldn't go into the clubhouse or they couldn't go into the bar or they couldn't bring, their partner or their kids to the club, and these are things I think are massively important and for clubs at a particular level to retain they're, newly found members. I think the culture possibly for some of them needs to change as well and the smart casual, and the theme nights break down a lot of barriers and if clubs who were had fourth site to do that, probably I would say have much greater opportunity to make it a success. but those that may be have stuck to tradition, and maybe not moved with the times. And are in that middle category could, struggle Jake over time.

Jake Hower: 00:30:07

I think the point on hospitality, is a big one to be made because COVID has just decimated the hospitality industry. And the level of service that you generally get now is a lot lower. a lot of, the best talent in the hospitality, industry left the industry, over COVID for various reasons. One of them being lifestyle choice. I think golf clubs have. The ability to really capitalize on that because you're not necessarily getting designated hospitality stuff. You're getting people who are working in hospitality through the golf club, but maybe, are attracted to that work environment for other reasons. So I think you've got the ability to capture people who have, very enthusiastic. And if you can teach them the hospitality skills and encourage them to deliver that level of hospitality, I think golf clubs have a real opportunity to capitalize because yeah, people are probably not enjoying their dining out experience as much as they would have pre COVID at the moment.

Bill Donald: 00:31:09

it's an interesting point you make because if you join a club, it means you enjoy the club.

Jake Hower: 00:31:13

Yes.

Bill Donald: 00:31:13

with that. So you think, okay, so my market, let's mine the membership to start off with, they've already bought into the fact that they're a member of the club. So let's then overlay that with a hospitality, hopefully excellence. Which is what every member of course wants. so you've got a willing marketplace to start off and usually an encouraging marketplace as well. So you're right. You can blood. you've got members. as well. looking for jobs and maybe that's a good place to start. if you're struggling to attract staff, that could be a good area to start. is get amongst the membership and say, does your son and daughter, want the job and we'll train them and what have you. Also the environment. people think it could be a bit stuffy on difficult, but can be very respectful on. Maybe the hospitality industry in the world that we live in these days.

Jake Hower: 00:32:13

Yeah.

Bill Donald: 00:32:15

on in the club. If you're running it properly and anybody oversteps the line, that gets dealt with by the board or general manager. you could lose your membership. So there is a consequence to acting badly Whereas if it's a restaurant or whatever, you may never see that person again or, becomes difficult. If they come back again, what do you do to ban them? How do you do it? so in many ways. I can see how golf and hospitality has an opportunity. I think part of the issue, and part of the problem is well, members spend the money that's required. to keep a hospitality level at, the expectations exceed

Jake Hower: 00:32:55

Yep.

Bill Donald: 00:32:55

expectations. That's always a difficult balancing act. I think that, one that the members of a club need to think about very carefully because, costs have gone up. inevitably that means that, cost of food has gone up Therefore, that's going to be reflected in the price. So what constitutes good quality value for money? It's obviously the key question I think that Can stymie a club as well. That sort of spiral of I don't want to pay over the odds or I don't want to pay a particular price for a particular dish on it gets all a bit price sensitive. I think what you started off by saying that it could be a good environment to train people to bring people into the hospitality industry, I think is true. if you're comfortable in that environment, not everybody is, but I think if you're comfortable and you're used to that sort of environment, then I think you're right. Golf clubs is a great way to get into the hospitality industry and, I think under conditions, that are, probably favorable for the staff member.

Jake Hower: 00:33:59

Now you, halfway through that episode, you mentioned that you've started, your own podcast. What's, what brought you to start that particular podcast?

Bill Donald: 00:34:07

it was something that I just wanted to develop, So thought, if I get into podcasting, I'm going to start to do a bit of research. It's going to be good for my development. that's something that I would be quite keen to put myself out there, but as a team at Loch Lomond, we said, how can we improve our communication to the membership? what can we do? That's a bit different. And then we came up with a view from the law and I just got a whole. Plethora of guests willing to come on the show. Some were members, the memberships all over the world. So we have some fantastic sports people, business people, and then they had good connections as well. Lee Westwood came on. He's a member. Bob McIntyre is a member as well. but I couldn't get Bob on, but, Lee came on and was fascinating for an hour or so. and not just, Mark Kalkovecky, I can remember as well. I did a podcast with him, and just people, throughout, the world of entertainment. and business and they lined up to come on to this podcast that Locke Loman members were able to download actually a golf radio program in Washington picked up on it and they published them as well, which was fine I guess it came through us trying to be innovative and creative and nobody else wanted to do the podcast so I was left holding the baby but I was happy to do it and it was just great fun. And there's some cricketers. Jeffrey Boycott certainly came on and, again was fascinating. Paul Collingwood, was another who's a member of Loch Lomond as well. and, it was just, it seemed to be very, straightforward and easy to get, people to come on and talk golf. so yeah, so that led me. And then I was asked, podcast, who'd be a golf manager, and a site and Spotify and what have you. And it's really taken off. it's, I got something crazy like 135 cities and 17 countries, I've logged on to it and it's become a bit of a thing. But as I say, I'm finishing with Locke Lomond, and that's coming out this week. And then that will be me. I have been approached, about a half an hour show a week. That, in line with the betting company, that I'm thinking about, but, I don't know. I don't know, this could do me that who'd want to be a golf manager could be the end of me and podcasting. I've got a full time job at cathedral and need to make sure I concentrate on that as well.

Jake Hower: 00:36:37

Yeah, as you say, it's a great medium to engage with your audience just because they listen, they're in your ear for, half an hour, 45 minutes. So It's certainly a form of media and communication that you just can't really get in, other sort of platform really. but it's a great place, great, way to meet people as well. And you, have some great chats with others.

Bill Donald: 00:37:01

I remember with my father, the characters and there wasn't social media then, and the stories were, okay, it's Ireland and there's stories everywhere Ireland, for sure. Yeah, I don't know if I hear as many stories as I used to, funny stories in golf and people, telling you and regaling what happened, to them or who they met or whatever. And the one thing over the career is, I've met an awful lot of people involved with golf. And some of the stories just are either very funny or very interesting as well. And actually, with the Locke Lowman story, Tom Weisskopf the course developer, or was the course developer. Tom nearly died, on the course at Loch Lomond. Now you'll have to tune in when I released it. It is a hell of a story. And he literally thought he was gone. and, and, as well as, a funny story with Tom, where somebody took his clubs, thought there were higher clubs. Tom Icecoff, second, in the masters four times, won the open and train, major player in the world of golf, probably one of the best swings in golf. and, this guy doesn't pick up the higher clubs, picks up Tom Weiss coughs golf clubs. we discovered that this chap's on the seventh, Tom Weiss cough approaches them in a buggy and it's got a Weiss cough in the side of the bag. And he said, Hey buddy, Do you realize that they're my golf clubs? And the guy said, Are these seriously your golf clubs? And Weisskopf said, yeah, they are. And he said, you can take them because they're effing terrible. I've only scored two points in the first seven holes. I know the worst golf clubs I've ever seen in my entire life. And give me that other. I'm sorry, I'm terribly sorry, Mr. Weisskopf. What an embarrassment. And in fact, he got sworn at and practically the club's thrown at him. it was just, he really thought that was so funny. to be able to tell those sort of stories. is, just, I think if anything, we're slightly lacking them in golf. There's plenty of analysis. There's plenty of talk between live and the PGA and people choosing one side, the other, or there's plenty of chat about what's happened to the U S open the day or other majors or other tournaments. And I get it. And the analysis and people pitching their two pennies worth in, but come on, where's the stories, where's the funny stories, where's the things that have happened. to, you've met a professional golfer and they've said something funny or they've done something that's worth reporting. I don't know. I think there's a gap for that, Jake, for sure. And I think that the podcasts have done the best, to tell as many stories as possible. And actually I even get into telling a story about Led Zeppelin. it was a story that I didn't believe And it turned out to be true when they released a book three years ago, actually saw an excerpt and this particular factual information that had been passed on to me was actually true and I couldn't believe it. it's just good, I think, to get into, sort of storytelling mode.

Jake Hower: 00:40:10

Yep. Bill, it's been great chatting. I've really enjoyed it and I've been enjoying that podcast as well. the stories are great. we don't hear enough of these stories. So I'm really happy that you're sharing it. For our listener, where can they, keep in touch with you? Would X be the place to be?

Bill Donald: 00:40:27

yeah, it's, at Bill B. I. L. Donald D. O. N. A. L. D. one. and, you'll see pinned on my Twitter account, the, podcasts have alluded to, or it's on Spotify under golf management and actually the unwielding title. The movie that Quentin Tarantino could have made it is a lot of ups and downs And that's on spotify. It's on amazon music as well, I believe and I guess that's the channels you can find it on so it's relatively underground, but it's really taken off and who've contacted me say just tell us the stories bill tell us a story. So Loch Lomond is coming up and there's a lot of stories connected with Loch Lomond. I think people will enjoy hearing.

Jake Hower: 00:41:15

Oh, wonderful. Bill, it's been great chatting. listener, thank you for tuning in and we'll speak to you again soon.

Bill Donald: 00:41:19

Jake, you're an absolute gentleman and good luck with everything. I think it's excellent what you're doing and please, people give Jake a bit of a shout out as well. I think a very important contribution in the world of golf. So thanks having me on Jake.

Jake Hower: 00:41:32

Thanks a lot.