Building Flushing It from the Ground Up with Tom Hobbs

Jake Hower: 00:00:00

Welcome to Beyond the Course, I am Jake Hauer, and today with me is Tom Hobbs from Flushinget.

Tom Hobbs: 00:00:06

Hey Jake, how are you doing?

Jake Hower: 00:00:08

Very well, thanks, how are you?

Tom Hobbs: 00:00:09

Yeah, good thanks.

Jake Hower: 00:00:10

Now I'm in Melbourne, a cloudy and wet you're over in the UK, Southampton I believe.

Tom Hobbs: 00:00:16

That's right, yeah, it's quite sunny actually at the moment, it's been a very pleasant day indeed.

Jake Hower: 00:00:19

That would be fairly unusual for you over there, is it?

Tom Hobbs: 00:00:22

Yeah, it's been a very cold and damp start to the year. So it feels like maybe summer's coming Finally,

Jake Hower: 00:00:30

If a listener has been in and around the golf social media space for any length of time, they've most likely have come across flushing at golf, which has become a little bit of a phenomenon from my research, it looked like you started the account back in April 21, maybe started posting around that sort of May time. What brought you to start? Flushing it.

Tom Hobbs: 00:00:54

To be honest, like I've always been obsessed with golf and I just wanted to stay in it while I wasn't playing very much. I had a football account, which I used to like post memes and stuff on up to 2021 and then I just figured, well, I wanted to do that with golf and cause there wasn't too many sort of golf accounts around like that. So I started just posting memes and it was just really just to have a laugh and I had a bit of an ambition to try and get more kids into it. So I thought like, popping those things up on Instagram would be fun. So I did that for a bit and then I realized there was loads of golf meme accounts about. So I started talking more about the stories in golf and stuff that I felt really passionate about. And then obviously the Lyft stuff happened and just things went crazy because I guess I just offer a different opinion. I'm quite, I cut through sort of the noise and get straight to the point of what I'm thinking. And I think a lot of people agree with a lot of what I've had to say. So it seems to taken off since then.

Jake Hower: 00:01:41

Where was it? So was it Instagram first or was it X or a combination?

Tom Hobbs: 00:01:45

I think I did both actually at the same time, but I concentrated on Instagram more because it was really hard to build a following on X I think. Instagram's a little bit easier, like the hashtags work a bit better. So, yeah, I was just doing that. It's difficult to set up a golf account on Excel, I think, because unless you're one of the big players, like, it's really difficult to get a reach, I think.

Jake Hower: 00:02:04

It certainly seems that way. So in terms of moving that audience from Instagram, did you have any sort of aspirations of turning it into a business at that early stage? Or was it more just to keep you entertained?

Tom Hobbs: 00:02:17

It's purely, I mean it still is now. I don't make, apart from the monetization on Twitter, I still don't make any money out of this. I just do it through passion and love of golf. I love playing golf. I don't get to play as much now. I still, in my head, think that I'm going to be a, even though I'm nearly 40, that I still think I'm going to be a pro, a top level pro someday, but I'm not obviously. So it's fun to keep you attached to that. So you're talking about the pro level keeps you somehow connected to the sport in that way. And that's what I enjoy the most is talking about elite professional golf because that's what I always wanted to be as a kid. So. It keeps that passion burning even though there's zero chance that I'm ever going to do it now.

Jake Hower: 00:02:54

You're fairly prolific. I don't spend a lot of time myself on Instagram, but you're posting probably 10 posts a day on average. I would assume that sort of really ramps up over the weekends and the majors as well. How are you just doing all of that manually? Are you using any sort of scheduling tools or.

Tom Hobbs: 00:03:14

I literally just do it almost just with me and my iPhone. It's a lot of the time I'll be at work and I'll have a couple of hours free and I'll just quickly flick through the news cycle and, like, aggregate some stories or throw some opinions out there. There's a lot of the time, you probably notice it, I do occasionally just shitpost because I'll just be flicking through Twitter and I think, do you know what? I'll just post a meme for no reason. And then you do and it either hits or it doesn't. So, yeah, I just post whatever I think is fun and whatever I think people are going to want to engage with. That's pretty much the only goal is to keep people, looking at the account and agreeing with things or just getting involved in talking about golf. Cause we all love it, right? That's, it's just an obsessive sport and we all have a big passion for it.

Jake Hower: 00:03:50

It's certainly obsessive and can be a little bit counterproductive if you're not supposed to be spending so much time on it.

Tom Hobbs: 00:03:55

That's very true. Yeah.

Jake Hower: 00:03:57

Do you have any plans of monetizing it further at all, or is it more just to keep you entertained, a little bit of a side hobby for you?

Tom Hobbs: 00:04:04

Another good question, Jake. I don't know, to be honest, because it's, things have developed like real quick with this, because obviously like you just brought up that it's only been going about three years and the way it's modified and morphed from being a meme account. to just now like breaking obviously the john ram story is crazy like that was like the biggest story in golf last year and I had that two weeks before anyone else and that kind of Makes you think that there is potential for it But I just don't really like the idea of like being a journalist or anything like that. So, even though I am I don't really Have any desires to make that sort of the whole account. It's just Yeah, I don't know. It's I think just keep doing what I'm doing, just enjoying it because I don't want it to turn into a job because it's a good outlet for me when, life can get a bit on top of you sometimes. So I can get into that and just talk about golf and it takes you away from any, work and all that crap. So.

Jake Hower: 00:04:54

I think one in an article, I think I read earlier you mentioned you call yourself fan media versus journalism. How would you define fan media versus journalism?

Tom Hobbs: 00:05:05

Fan media is more like I think it's more authentic and it's more like giving your opinion on things rather and not being like a columnist which is more sort of journalism which is you give context and background to stuff. Like I will just give my opinion, which may not be entirely balanced sometimes. I try to be balanced, but it's not always, if I can like say that I love a player. And talk about, like, if someone's doing really well, like, set up a Victor Hovland, if he's playing really well, I can, like, almost fanboy that, and that's acceptable but you can't really do that if you're a journalist. So I think there's quite a big distinction there, and it's, you can also be a bit more, like, risky and, and say some things which you definitely can't do if it's your job and it's, and you're a proper journalist.

Jake Hower: 00:05:48

Do you think as you get bigger, you've got a responsibility to follow some of the journalism practices, or do you think you can just stay in your lane, be that fan media style and continue to shitpost?

Tom Hobbs: 00:05:59

100 percent think that you need to be more legit and like definitely not try to what's the word, like, I don't really know how to describe it, but you have to, I really want to make sure that what I'm saying is factual, like obviously having an opinion and like fanboying a player or whatever is cool, but there's no way I wouldn't like just make up a story, like just for the sake of engagement, right? Because that's just insane. There is a responsibility for that. And it came to a head last year when those court documents of the PJ tour became public and I wrote a big post about what happened with the European tour group and how they had effectively been bought out by Ponte Vedra and their intentions for the tour going forwards. I was really concerned about posting that, so I checked everything to make sure it was right. And it turns out that it was all true, that everything I was saying has come to fruition. So, that's been quite a nice bit. I think In general, my track record was pretty good for sort of news stories as well. I don't think I've got a hell of a lot wrong or something pretty hot on the lift subjects.

Jake Hower: 00:06:54

As we stand here, which platform do you think is the most effective for you?

Tom Hobbs: 00:06:58

it's gotta be X. it just feels like more of a media platform. If you know what I mean, it's great for picking up new stories. It's great for getting things out there really quick, but the John Rahm thing, when I posted about that, it gets like 2 million impressions in an hour, but that wouldn't happen on Instagram because it has to be picked up by the algorithm on Instagram, whereas X is much more authentic and natural and retweets and shares and comments directly affect the engagement. Whereas Instagram has to wait to be picked up by the algo and that might take a day or whatever. So if you want to get a new story out there real quick, X is definitely supposed to do it.

Jake Hower: 00:07:29

seems to be that it's a good sort of spot to have more in depth, even though you're limited to 280 sort of characters you can get more context around. Subjects and topics just the way the platform works. Whereas like an Instagram from my perspective is more of a broadcast platform, and then you might have a little bit of interaction on that direct post X you can people can comment on a situation and doesn't have to be all focused on one, one sort of spot if that makes sense.

Tom Hobbs: 00:07:58

Yeah, absolutely you can obviously go more than 280 characters now and You can always write news articles if you want to, or upload an hour long video or podcast or interview or something. So, it's bringing all the social media platforms into one place. And yeah, I really, think X is going to be the future of that type of thing. So, certainly for news, the news cycle is so quick on X. I love it. It's great to just pick up stories and aggregate things other people are saying.

Jake Hower: 00:08:22

Looking at X then a little bit further, was there any particular point in time where it just clicked on X for you? You had a real surge in sort of followers or in interaction or?

Tom Hobbs: 00:08:35

Pretty much just on Liv. So when Liv started in 2022, I only had like 1, 500 followers or something. And I just started defending the right for Liv to exist because I could see the positives with it. And then certainly defending all like a lot of my favorite players like the european rider cup side players like went on to live so I didn't like the fact that I thought they were being harassed about making a business decision for their lives Like it was being made out to be something that it really isn't and that's you know I felt like I was given a different opinion which people could resonate with because it was all coming one way from the media and it was all about how bad live is and how bad it is for golf and how these people sell outs, etc And I felt differently and i'm quite opinionated and I would put that opinion out there and people would resonate with it And some people would just interact because they hated my opinion So they would like just always comment and just give me shit and that kind of is how it blew up, I think really because I remember I think it went to I'd like just before the us open and then I had like 6k in the open week so that's in like less than two months it blew up and then I don't know even though i've gotten out like 55k or something yeah, I think it was generally all about the live discussion and people wanted to hear what people were saying. And you had so many people on one side of the argument, I was the opposite, right? And that's why I think it blew up on there.

Jake Hower: 00:09:47

I'm just looking at your sort of follower stats and growth. It looks like around masters in 22, you have a little spike. And then again, as you say,

Tom Hobbs: 00:09:56

masters week. It's crazy.

Jake Hower: 00:09:58

looking at Google trends or whatever it just blows everything else away and nothing comes close masters is pretty much when the world tunes in.

Tom Hobbs: 00:10:06

Yeah, exactly.

Jake Hower: 00:10:08

Growth numbers seem to spike around majors, but as you say, around that sort of June, July period of 22 there's a real spike, which is when live started. And then probably your biggest week in terms of growth was September, October last year, and June.

Tom Hobbs: 00:10:27

June last year, that would have been around the framework agreement time, I assume. Yep. And then that was as well when the court documents came out. And I wrote quite a big post about that and dissected it all down and other media weren't doing that at the time because they were a bit scared about the legal. Yep. And I just, I didn't have that fair, so I put it out and a lot of people wanted to read what I was saying about that. So yeah, that kind of makes sense.

Jake Hower: 00:10:46

One thing I've noticed with X is that get engagement, it seems that you need to hit both sides of an argument. You need to either have people. A hundred percent defending you and your position. And on the flip side, you need people who just disagree 100%. It seems that if you're anywhere in the middle it doesn't get as much engagement.

Tom Hobbs: 00:11:07

It's interesting though, because you see these accounts like say, is it T U O R golf? And he will just put out like a made up quote. That's really offensive. And it gets like 5 million interactions in like a day. And that's how X works because there'll be so many people quote tweeting that and giving their opinion one way or the other or commenting on it. And that's how it gets so many impressions. So it is a bit clickbaity.

Jake Hower: 00:11:29

That's, I guess how accounts grow though, really, isn't it? It's like, if X is not really a platform for a centered view. Because it just, you're almost broadcasting to an empty hall. When you're the voice of reason, no one sort of interacts

Tom Hobbs: 00:11:46

Well, that's exactly right. And my growth has slowed down, I think, the last few months because I've been a bit more central and haven't been shouting as much about my opinions on live because things just seem like they're coming together. So there's no need to do that. And it definitely has slowed down. So. Yeah, I think you're right with that, but that's just the way social media works, isn't it? And it's why we have such a fractured society, and why this like, Liv debate has become so hot. It's because you have to be one side or the other. And if I write anything critical about Liv, I get all the Liv fans like, giving me shit about that. I even get Liv staff get upset with me about it. And if you write anything like, positive about Liv, everyone just tells me I'm a paid shill. So you just can't win it's, it doesn't matter. People have their perception of what you are. And yeah, you just can't win. But Liv is always a hot subject. So if you want engagement, just post something crazy about

Jake Hower: 00:12:29

Liv, that's why I've seen the exact same thing happen and it's, so here's a question I'd post going back, if you're starting again, would you incite that sort of controversy by focusing on Liv to grow?

Tom Hobbs: 00:12:41

I haven't really concentrated on growing to honest. I've just said what I say, and I think that's part of why it has grown so well is because it is authentic I'm a tradesman. I'm not a golf writer. I'm not looking to make money out of this. I just give that bloke in the pub sort of opinion. I think a lot of people can engage and agree with a lot of what I'm saying because it is like that. when you give an opinion, which is very direct, I'm quite good at cutting through the noise and just going straight to the point and keeping it short and snappy. I think that's how news and stuff is digested now as well. people don't want to read a massive article. They want to see a very quick tweet about what's happening and straight to the point. So, if you're looking for advice on how to grow your platform I would say that positivity actually seems to win quite a lot. finding cool news stories, which people just Oh, this is amazing. And share to their mates or whatever seems to do quite well. look at MondayQinfo, all he's doing is just finding amazing, positive stories and people have worked their whole lives to be professional golfers. he does really well, doesn't he? And he's a fantastic follower.

Jake Hower: 00:13:37

In terms of building an engaged audience, that's probably a really good point because negativity might get you impressions and whatnot, but it doesn't get you sort of true fans. Outside of the people who agree with what you're saying.

Tom Hobbs: 00:13:50

And it's also it's bad energy in it. Like just, I've noticed that like, there's some things I wanted to say recently, which I just haven't pulled the trigger on posting it because I've just been like, I just can't be arsed with this. I just don't need the negative energy in my life.

Jake Hower: 00:14:02

I think there's also like, X is a place for me. It's a, I go there to as an outlet of sorts. So it is a place I'm happy to shitpost a little bit.

Tom Hobbs: 00:14:11

Yeah.

Jake Hower: 00:14:11

Half of what I say on X, like I don't necessarily 100 percent agree. They might have some truth in it, but it's not something that you'd sit down and have a conversation and I'd be. So it's almost, it is taking the piece a little bit on X, but that's just, to keep things interesting and to try and garner that engagement a little bit.

Tom Hobbs: 00:14:29

Some wild takes every now and then. That's the whole point it's no fun if you don't do that.

Jake Hower: 00:14:34

No, correct. Now you've periodically posted a podcast. How has the sort of feedback on that? How have you found that?

Tom Hobbs: 00:14:42

Feedback's been fine. the sound quality is terrible and picture quality is terrible as well. I don't like, I never really had any. doing a podcast, but then I kept having the opportunity to speak to some really cool names. And if you go through that list, it's quite a who's who of well, certainly live names. And yeah, if you have the opportunity to talk to people like that, that's just the reason why I got into it. But unless there's someone that's desperate to do an interview with me, I'm not going out of my way to continue it. It's not like I feel like I have to post regularly or anything. I tried to do something with my brother and we just didn't have the time to do the analysis of golf. it takes so much time. And when you've got young family and a job you just think, is it worth it? Like, why am I doing this? I do enjoy it, but there's so much behind the scenes that goes into it that just don't have the time for

Jake Hower: 00:15:25

what about website?

Tom Hobbs: 00:15:26

I have considered it, not for very long. But yeah, it all just comes down to what we're trying to do with this, right? And it's, at the moment, it's literally just, yeah, I'm not looking at it as a business opportunity at the moment. But there certainly are some things I can do in the future. And maybe when this is all died down a little bit that might be something I look into. Like, there is a place for that type of media and bridging the gap between established media and fan media. I think it's quite important because it makes it more authentic. And you cover news stories, which sometimes established press aren't keen to touch on because it might be too risky. So I think there was definitely a place for him.

Jake Hower: 00:15:57

Flushing it and flushing at golf. com. We're both registered in around November last year. Was that you or is someone squatting on those domains?

Tom Hobbs: 00:16:06

decided to to take an opportunity. Fair play to them. Yeah. Know that was gone.

Jake Hower: 00:16:12

That's really funny. All so what's, in terms of, have you had people come to you and off you opportunities to monetize it at all

Tom Hobbs: 00:16:20

There's been a few I won't go into specifics, but yeah, a few people have asked for like advertising things like to advertise on the podcast or whatever and people like asking for partnerships if I want to be paid to go on their podcast and interview players for them or like be part of their network or whatever. But yeah, I mean it's just one of those things at the moment I just really don't have any interest in monetizing at the moment. So it's just doing it for a laugh So yeah, i've just i've rejected everything i've had no adverts as you can tell on my feeder tool, I literally just make like whatever it is, like 150 bucks a month from the blue check mark. And I didn't even do that. I didn't get the blue check mark for that. I wanted to be able to post longer and be able to edit the posts. So it just was a byproduct, which I'm not going to complain about it.

Jake Hower: 00:17:04

You've been really consistent with posting. it takes a lot of time and effort. Obviously you really enjoy it.

Tom Hobbs: 00:17:10

A hundred percent. It's, just. I've always enjoyed writing and obviously golf is my passion and trying to find and build narratives around a player or a storyline is, I really enjoy it. And it's also fascinating to see like how you can start a news cycle. Like it's just me on my phone at work, right? Just like flicking through some posts and finding a story to aggregate. And then before it's been picked up by like Golf Digest and Golf Monthly and stuff. and it becomes like a big deal. And that's been absolutely fascinating to watch happen.

Jake Hower: 00:17:37

How do you when you see something take off that you've posted and which may be getting towards the edges of being controversial, do you find you need to follow it up and go down that sort of route again? Are you able to have an internal conversation and say, no, I'm getting a little bit off track here. I need to come back to where I believe I should be and not worry about the engagement and the reach and whatever.

Tom Hobbs: 00:18:00

I don't think I've done that too much. So it's developed. I used to do that a lot when they first started out, it was just like post controversial things. And really just try and wind people up just being a wind up merchant. Cause that was good fun at the time. But I tend to not really do that anymore. So yeah, I think At the end of the day, I just want it to be a platform where everyone that loves golf just comes to, like, look at news, right? So you talk about the PGA Tour, you talk about the L. E. T., you talk about the LPGA, you talk about the Sunshine Tour, Raging Tour, Live, whatever. And like, I just want it to be like a place where everyone who just loves golf just comes to get their news and see some views.

Jake Hower: 00:18:32

Is that changing? Do you think, cause I would have said that flushing it initially was leave centric. Have you found it hard to move the sort of the understanding of what the brand is to being more golf centric?

Tom Hobbs: 00:18:44

It was quite live centric, but that was, I think I was at the first two, like I say, the first two years of like when Liv came up, certainly into probably the end of last year. I was just filling a void, like, because people weren't, no one was like communicating what was actually happening at Live, and certainly things about the Asian tour and like the money they'd invested that was a story that I really wanted to tell and to push. And, but there was, like no real, there was hardly any journalists, apart from the first one, going to Live events, so they weren't picking up all these stories. So I just felt like it was my place to inform golf fans what was going on. So I used to ask a million questions to like the live communication team about what was happening and they would be candid with their answers So I would just put it out there right and just explain what was actually happening and this is how the league works and this is what's going on behind the scenes and it made me look Like I was somehow an insider, but I wasn't I was just asking the questions that other journalists weren't asking to the communication team from live and they've been very helpful. So Yeah, it's just I do agree with you that it certainly was a bit left centric and I have consciously tried to like bring that back to the center and yeah, I think that I hope now that people look at it and see that i'm certainly been a lot more Constructive and like with criticism and stuff of the league And like calling out things when I see it because there is a lot of obviously they don't do everything right But just because I agree with what they in principle are trying to achieve That doesn't mean they do everything right, and you have to be balanced and like, criticise just like I would do any other tour.

Jake Hower: 00:20:14

I think the other thing is, so I was used social really is more of a passive, I can consume news and into speak to friends and whatnot on it. One thing that I found particularly with Liv and being an Aussie and having a different perspective and a different outlook on both Saudi and just golf in general and seeing that professional golf has been destroyed outside of the U S One thing that sort of pulled me towards posting and speaking about live as a topic was just trying to counter some of the us sort of opinion and reporting on it. It just seems so one sided and lacking any sort of perspective outside of, their own sort of.

Tom Hobbs: 00:20:59

100%. And that's what they fail to see that sometimes. Cause it's such an, but they just look, it's such an insular. Almost attitude from the pj tour and also the pj tour But the media which go to all their events see it that way as well and It was important to have a strong international voice that does that kind of thing because the majority of like this like no laying up call themselves finalists, right? They've tried to be a bit more global with their opinions, but it's very u. s centric And like pretty much all of those types of things like the shotgun start really good But again, it's very u. s centric so I thought it was important to have some one that talked more about international golf and certainly the Like what's happening in australia with is a big positive to me. And that's why I see the disruption phase that's happened is only going to help the game around the world because like the pj tour were very clearly Trying to monopolize everything towards the states and you can see that with what they have done with the european tour How they've suffocated international tours like the australasian pj tour or the sunshine tour or whatever So they've become a, like a, literally a blip of what they formerly were. And that's exactly what they're trying to do at the European tour. And I think that you had to have this disruption. It took, like, a public wealth fund with, billions and billions of dollars to spend. And someone like Greg Norman, who just didn't give a shit what the establishment said. They, it had to happen like that. Because you've seen the pushback against him. No one else, like, would have been able to get this off the ground, I don't think. You had to be that stubborn and that brave and that single minded. Just to get to where they are now.

Jake Hower: 00:22:27

I've been in golf since 2015 as well, 2015 is when I started playing and at that time it's switch on of the nighttime of that sort of eight, 9 PM, I'd be able to watch the European tour, watch a decent course. I'd watch a pretty, pretty strong field wake up out of the morning and watch the PGA tour. But that's over particularly COVID really fast tracked it, but trying to watch the European tour now, it's a shell of its previous self and everything is centered around the U S. So, it was something I'd almost resigned to the fact that, well, this is the way it is. The money is in the U S it's, that's where it's going to stay, but the PIFAs. Presented an opportunity to level the playing field again. I think

Tom Hobbs: 00:23:12

Yeah, they have, definitely. And so I just hope that what I can see happening, because obviously Liv's not going away, we're pretty obvious now to everybody that all these calls that Liv was going to disappear at the end of last year just hasn't happened, and they're just going from strength to strength. I can see there being two tours the PGA Tour stays US based and has the US TV rights, and the majority of the American players play there, and then you have Liv maybe form somehow a schedule built around obviously around the world, but somehow incorporating like European tour events and stuff. But yeah, it's, that's what I think there should be. It's like a world tour and the American tour can stay doing whatever they want because that's what they want to do. But you have to have this world tour, I believe, to take the sport forwards. And whether it incorporates like national opens or which stays with the live format I don't think it matters too much because as long as it's getting those players into those regions So that like golfers can see them in the flesh. I think that's just a really big positive for the sport

Jake Hower: 00:24:05

what would be your ideal outcome from where we are now?

Tom Hobbs: 00:24:08

Pretty much that to be honest. I think live should Maybe drop the amount of events they have for this team competition and make it like almost like cricket with the IPL windows But they have the team events a direct head to head match play but in two different windows And then they like incorporate say the south africa and australian opens like all that sort of thing into a established tour schedule because then that sorts out all the major access or the points and everything because they can play proper established golf But then they also have this direct like solely team based events as well, which is where the value is in the franchise models because I just don't think that the way they're doing it at the moment really works because it's kinda like a bolt-on and if they're gonna be a team event, it should be all about the team event and the playoff in Avan age. How good was that like when you had the Australian team going up against the SaaS and it was like direct head to head with a home crowd? It was fantastic. And if they can try to recreate that with direct head to head match play, I think that's where the future lies within the team golf. What do you think of that?

Jake Hower: 00:25:04

I'm probably lean more towards where formula one is, where the team aspect is. Big, but it's not entirely important in, in terms of so you have fans who will maybe align with the team and they'll just follow that team regardless. So you have some fans who will align with a particular driver and then they might follow that driver across different teams. Like for me, Ricardo was a big one. And before him Mark Weber, I used to follow quite a lot and they were both sort of red bull, but I followed Ricardo across to McLaren and whatnot. And so my team Alliance wasn't as strong as my driver Alliance. And then you have the constructors championship, but the main focus is still the driver the individual standings. And I think that's probably similar With golf, because it is an individual sport still. And where I struggle on breaking out the team into its own thing is that I don't see that potentially having great finishes all the time. Like we might see some huge blowouts. And if that's the case, if that becomes the norm, how interesting is it?

Tom Hobbs: 00:26:17

That's what they're trying to achieve is the F1 model, isn't it? You can see that the way they've set up the whole league itself like the way they have the leaderboard with the pile on and stuff is, it's almost exactly like F1. So yeah, you're probably right. That's probably exactly what they're trying to do, but I'm not entirely sure how much I buy into that because the team thing Unless it's head to head, I just, I don't it's two years in, I still haven't really paid much attention to it apart from when they had that playoff in Australia.

Jake Hower: 00:26:39

that's where he stands because until we get in a bit of player movement and maybe a salary cap of some description I don't think it's really hard to follow the team stuff. even watching it in an event, you really can't look at it until the last four or five holes because it's so volatile. There's such big movements.

Tom Hobbs: 00:27:00

It's so true, and even with the four players counting on Sundays as well, you get some massive moves right at the end. I just, I'm really struggling to buy into it. But I think the trade windows, like you were just saying, and the salary caps, like that's a huge part. They have to get that off the ground. Because at the moment, like, the mid season transfer window was just completely non existent. And I know that there was a team that asked to extend the contract to a player, but they had to get permission of the league, and the league said no. So once, like, the league sells their 75 percent stakeholding or 100 percent stakeholding of the teams, then, and they're actually trying to make a profit, and they're making these decisions based around, like, actually being a profitable company and a profitable franchise. I think that's when the team aspect maybe will flourish, but at the moment it's just not doing it for me, but

Jake Hower: 00:27:42

That to me is what they have to do if they really want the team aspect to work, because until you start seeing that sort of competition for players and actual true competition for players and that sort of movement, it's very hard to get invested in it. Like.

Tom Hobbs: 00:27:57

Yeah, it really is.

Jake Hower: 00:28:00

The other thing I think if you start getting to see these sort of trades so here in the AFL trade period is a huge business. there's lots of commentary lots of media that focus just on the trade period itself. And I think it's very similar in, in football as well, isn't it?

Tom Hobbs: 00:28:15

Oh, absolutely. I'd love to be talking about transfers and rumours and stuff about live, like I tried to find as many rumours and storylines as I could during the trade window, but there just wasn't any. So like the first four teams that I asked on the first day after the window was announced, they all said, oh no, we're not making any changes. So it's just like, wow, this is already a dud for me. But if there was speculation and you can like throw out some things that there might potentially be a move from whoever, like say, I don't know, one of the Majestic's guys isn't happy because they're at the bottom of the table and he wants to leave and go to wherever, like that would be quite fun to talk about. But yeah, it's just not really taken off at the moment, is it? So we have to see what the future holds.

Jake Hower: 00:28:52

There's a bit of work to be done there. USF and peak. Going to pick Cam. I don't like his form coming in, but he just looks like he's going to relish this challenge. And I think if the winning score is around level par, I think it could be Cam's But I was talking to a lot of players who were saying that they think this, there's going to be a lot of luck involved. So it could be surprise winner as well. There could be someone random because like, if you hit it in that scrub, like you have to just consistently get lucky with the lies. So, yeah, we could see someone outside of what people are expecting to win this event. I think so. And the other thing that's, I think is going to be interesting to watch will be seeing how differently they play the course with the additional distance that is on tour since 2014. looking at the course itself, I can't see any disadvantage in some of the really long guys being really aggressive. Getting as close as I can to the green. And then I think it just improves their chances regardless of where they are of keeping something on the green for their second shot.

Tom Hobbs: 00:29:50

I agree with that. It's very similar to what Bryson is, I spoke to Bryson and Greg Bedeen, his caddie earlier, and he was just saying, like, there's going to be so much luck involved, like, with those lies that you might as well just get as close as you can, and then you can help loft the ball up a bit more, which helps you stop it on the upturned saucers. So I think you could be right. Just someone who really sends it and gets it down there, they could have a big week.

Jake Hower: 00:30:10

Based on that and based on leaving the ball in good miss positions where you can potentially take out wedge and muse of putter or a more de lofted club, I'm picking Victor Hovland.

Tom Hobbs: 00:30:22

Oh, good. I would love that. He looked like he was grinding a bit though. Too much for me, but I would love it if he played well.

Jake Hower: 00:30:27

Take the wedge out of his hands. Maybe you get a putter in his hand. He's a decent putter. Obviously he's a world class driver. He's quite accurate. Hopefully he surprises.

Tom Hobbs: 00:30:36

Yeah, definitely, that'd be great.

Jake Hower: 00:30:38

All right, Tom, great chatting.

Tom Hobbs: 00:30:40

Sam, cheers Jake, speak to you soon.