Presidents Cup and Spanish Open Recap, plus Alfred Dunhill Preview

Jake Hower: 00:00:00

Isn't it funny, I was thinking about just before starting, but we always enter podcasts the same way. So I thought I'm going to do it differently today. So I'm changing it up. We're on episode 22. I'm j Carer. I'm with Luke Manning. And we're discussing the week's events, which was primarily, there's two great ones. There's the President's Cup, which was entertaining. If not. competitive. It was a, it was an exhibition, but entertaining nonetheless and a great event in Spain.

Luke Manning: 00:00:27

Yeah, I think you pick the President's Cup last week. You said it was going to be very much like the Solheim Cup, where it was largely over on day one. But the international team would make enough of a comeback to keep you interested. And then by the end, It was never really in doubt for the Americans, and that's how it played out, but, a bit more excitement in the DP World Tour and the Spanish Open, with a playoff there deciding the result.

Jake Hower: 00:00:54

Yep. Definitely. let's look at the president's cup first. It was very entertaining. Like that first day was a, it was a absolute, the matches were quite close, but it was a trouncing in the end, wasn't it? It's to be expected that there is a, mismatch, it's Very mismatched. There's a much larger gap between, the U S and, the international team than what there is in the U S and the Euro team. Based on world rankings, the Euro team is maybe even closer to the U S than what the Euro is to the internationals, if that makes sense, so that would be a better competition Euros versus internationals, but probably still not as close as what we see in the Ryder Cup.

Luke Manning: 00:01:33

Yeah, certainly on paper, it's, a David and Goliath sort of struggle for the international guys, and, the experience that they have in the team just is not really, up by the raw talent, and the Americans have got a great blend of experience and raw talent, which is very hard to beat. hence the final score, which saw the Americans take it out, 18 and a half to 11 and a half.

Jake Hower: 00:01:58

Yep. I think one thing that the President's Cup may need to look at again or reconsider, is just how many points are available. I think, as with anything, the longer you go on the more the top level talent shines through. Like they say that, four rounds is better at identifying a champion and what three rounds is, and that's a sort of a complaint against live or. Something that sort of some of the CGM like to say about live, it's just not as competitive. You don't get the rights winner all the time. And with so many points available in the president's cup, there's just less to chance. if you're just looking at eventually the numbers win, overall, you just, yeah. So that's one thing that maybe they need to reconsider because I did increase it recently, I believe.

Luke Manning: 00:02:39

Compared to, I think it's 25 in Solheim. I'm not sure what the Ryder Cup number is but it was noticeable, the extra, number of matches in the President's Cup compared to the Solheim Cup only a few weeks ago, and I think there's some validity in what you say there. these events are generally set up to favor the U. Team, particularly where the PGA Tour owns this particular event, which did raise a question in my mind about Royal Montreal. And the set up of the course there, when I was watching, I observed it to be long rough, very lush conditions, soft greens are producing a lot of spin and grab, and it looked like a usual PGA Tour stop, and then you think, isn't the home team supposed to be able to put their thumb on the scale in terms of setup? And if that, is the case. what was we're doing? Because it looked like just creating a perfect PGA tour environment for the Americans to dominate on.

Jake Hower: 00:03:41

so there's probably a lot of what was weird thinking, throughout the entire event. if we look at the final result, I know as I look at the final results, so the U S one 18 and a half points to 11 and a half points. the internationals did quite well actually to earn their four points, I think it was three and a half points, Or four and a half points, actually, they're on seven. So they've ended in 11 and a half. So they did well to earn that many points in the singles because they were quite mismatched. So looking at, breaking down the four balls, which is typically where the internationals are more competitive. Xander and Feenow defeated Jay Day and Ben Arn that one up. Morikawa, Tagala bet Adam Scott and Minwoo Lee one up. Scotty Scheffler and Russ Henley bet Sungjae Im and Tom Kim three and two. Wyndham Clark and Keegan Bradley bet, Taylor Pendereth and, Bez one up. Pat Cantlay and Sam Burns defeated Matsuyama and Corey Connors two and one. So pretty close, but, it all just fell out in the wash, on the US side.

Luke Manning: 00:04:39

Yeah. for me, the interesting stories around the five nil sweep of the four balls on Thursday, then the complete reversal of that, in the foursomes on Friday. social media was a light after the first session. this tournament or this event's a joke, throw it in the bin. let's get just a PGA tour versus live, competition going. and then all of a sudden, those sort of cries were put squarely in their place, the next day where the, internationals quite unexpectedly in in my sort of sense of it, reversed it and did a, sweep of their own. I think possibly the only ever sweep I've done of a session. after that, I went to, has Jay issued a directive here overnight? Was there a mercy plea or a mercy directive issued by the PGA Tour to save the President's Cup, and the American team to take the foot off the pedal? what was your sense, Jake?

Jake Hower: 00:05:39

I was thinking that as well. It would certainly there is certainly a case to be made. I think that what probably, or at least in one matches case maybe puts bed to that is the fact that Matsuyama and Sanjay they had what seven or eight birdies in a row. they won seven and six on day two, but I think that sort of, I don't think you could easily, script seven, Birdies in a row,

Luke Manning: 00:06:02

you can't but then if you

Jake Hower: 00:06:04

But

Luke Manning: 00:06:05

of the event, the Americans went three and one, three and one, and then, what, they finished the singles in, six, three and, three, they pretty much dominated the remaining sessions, didn't they? a sceptical mind would say, they took their foot off the pedal to let the internationals who took their foot off the throat of the internationals and let them get up off the canvas and they just toy with them over the remaining sessions.

Jake Hower: 00:06:32

yeah, certainly there's, that's, I think, the other thing to consider is that on day one, a few of the guys mentioned that the crowd support wasn't fantastic. so we heard that from the internationals and then, from a few others as well. Day two, there were a lot more vocal, we saw a few people in the crowd that, was certainly getting things going, but, it made its way out that they, there are pied actors. so maybe that's where the PGA tour possibly put their thumb on the scale and bought more of that cauldron type of, type of experience to the, to the, to the president's cup.

Luke Manning: 00:07:05

Yeah. And you talk about day one, the atmosphere and the vibe not being there. it did raise a question for me, why we are, sent, Diane on out as the opening pairing. Why not sent some, two Canadians out, which he

Jake Hower: 00:07:20

Yes.

Luke Manning: 00:07:21

Canadians together a lot over the course of the week. why not really get things off to a bang with sending out your, top Canadian pair to open things up. so as you say, lots of questions about decisions that we made over the four days, that being one of them, certainly for me.

Jake Hower: 00:07:36

What did you think of, the beer sculling?

Luke Manning: 00:07:39

I didn't see any of this, so you'll have to get me up to speed.

Jake Hower: 00:07:43

who was it? I don't know. Was it Corey Connors? Was it sort of Pender? One of those guys. So first day, first day.

Luke Manning: 00:07:49

book, was it?

Jake Hower: 00:07:51

Yeah. skull to be before you tee off for to me, like that, probably rakes of the facts or points of the fact that it's just, it's not a real competition. It's an exhibition and that's completely fine, but it's not, we're not dealing right. A cup level sort of competition here.

Luke Manning: 00:08:05

think JT was after the match, wasn't it? It wasn't to start the match, so you can understand that, particularly if you've had a tight or an important victory, but to start off with a beer chug, that is, that's unorthodox, shall we say.

Jake Hower: 00:08:20

Yep. Day two, the other interesting thing that happened to me, and again, this might point to unusual decisions. So you had Morikawa paired with, Tagawa, Morikawa is arguably the best, iron player in the game, maybe outside of Scotty. He was teeing off on the, tees that weren't the par three. So you didn't have the best iron player in the game, hitting any tee shots into the four par threes. And the other thing that meant is that you had, Morikawa Didn't get to hit iron shots into the greens on the alternate holes as well, if that makes sense. So instead of having him the par threes, four par threes in and if the Carla had taken the opposite, you've got Morikawa putting, which is not incredibly strong with, and then hitting driver, which is strong, but certainly probably not as strong as what the Gala can be, but it's just a very interesting decision.

Luke Manning: 00:09:10

I think it plays back to giving the internationals a chance, there's some very strange choices there and the fact that Scott and beat the Gala and Morikawa 5 and 4 with Penderith

Jake Hower: 00:09:23

yeah,

Luke Manning: 00:09:24

stinky golf, says a lot and so that's an unusual, decision by the Americans and one that raises eyebrows.

Jake Hower: 00:09:33

so we got to Saturday, pretty much all square. and the two sessions on Saturday were relatively uncompetitive, so I guess the U S one or three points in the morning. And then, in the afternoon, they did the same thing. So they've gone six and two. Over the course of the Saturday.

Luke Manning: 00:09:51

Yeah. And really the, all the talking points were less about the golf and more about what's happening, in between holes, and off the course. So, we, saw allegations of poor sportsmanship from, Tom Kim against the, US players. there was some insinuation that, Maybe Wyndham Clark had insulted some of the international players wives and then there were blows on Twitter between Wyndham Clark and Ben Arnes. there was a bit of spice, happening off the golf course. And the other sort of talking point from that particular day was around. there were two actually, Tom Kim making the obligatory complaint about not being given putts and, measuring it with his putter and also, Siwu doing the Steph Curry night gesticulation after the chip in. that was the talk of, of the golf on Saturday.

Jake Hower: 00:10:46

Yep. people getting quite upset about the fact that, Tom Kim is doing the part of measure. I don't really care. I think it impacts Tom Kim more than we would discuss this previously. it impacts Tom Kim than it impacts anyone else. Although having seen everyone else's, Scotty actually looked, it didn't look too happy about it. So maybe that's, got them going as well. Probably wise for Tom Kim, not to be doing that when he's not really controlling the game.

Luke Manning: 00:11:08

point previously that it shows that it's actually in your head. You're focused on that rather than, what you should be focused on. and then it played out the next day in the singles where he was barely given a part at all. the Americans just played it straight back out to him, and back to him and fair play to them.

Jake Hower: 00:11:27

Now, Wyndham, there's got to be a point where he just needs to like, realize he's got to be just shut up, right? Not say anything about other people because we saw him at the masters, knock live and the fact that they only pay 54 holes. And then he went on a big sort of streak of playing, 36 holes, not making cuts, And then he done it again here is he caused a bit of trouble, made a few sort of announcements saying how close the US team is like that. They were sort of Euro level, closeness and camaraderie. his record wasn't very good. He's gone one, two, one.

Luke Manning: 00:12:00

Yeah, I think Wyndham's still on tilt from knocking back a big huge bag from Liv. you knock back 50 million or reportedly 50 million because you think you're worth 100 and you're probably worth a tenth of that. and then you, have some pretty ordinary results to volo. you're gonna be on tilt. his mind coach is not doing a job. she got him up for that U. S. Open at LACC, but it's been all downhill since then.

Jake Hower: 00:12:25

Yeah, see with Kim, what a rock star.

Luke Manning: 00:12:28

Incredible play. he's shown that he's obviously very talented. You don't win a player's, if you don't have great game. that golf course at Sawgrass tests the best golfers and you have to hit the shots. To win that tournament. So he certainly got the pedigree, but, did you know, going into the president's cup, would we have said, see where it was going to be the revelation over the first three days? I doubt we would have.

Jake Hower: 00:12:49

No, he's probably, I think that leads to our short memories because he was pretty strong in the last couple of, president's cups teams he's played in. But, he is, he's probably the player that, everyone thinks Tom Kim is,

Luke Manning: 00:13:01

That's true. the putting was incredible. The chipping was incredible. some of the iron shots he hit were just stone dead. It was fantastic golf to watch from him over the first three days. And really, without his play, it could have been a total walloping.

Jake Hower: 00:13:18

Now, what did you think about, my career running with the same players for the, two rounds on the Saturday?

Luke Manning: 00:13:24

Yeah, I guess that meant that, he didn't let Minwoo cook, or he wasn't liking what Minwoo was cooking up. I think Dan Rappaport made that point, on X. so was strange to me that Minwoo had been benched and he played, I think, one of the first four sessions, through, Thursday through Saturday. Bye. he's someone that can get hot. and this sort of, match play style could really suit him, but, he just played the first day and then sat for the next two. So that was a bit surprising. and then Jason Day also sat the whole of Saturday. you would think that being beaten three and one in the morning session on Saturday would have prompted a change up to the pairings. but no, just rolled with it and threw them straight back out there again.

Jake Hower: 00:14:17

Yep. I thought it was quite a strange decision. if not for the fact that just resting players, Adam Scott is 44. he was a trooper, but, you'd have thought to give them the best advantage, particularly on the Sunday singles, just, give him a little break. Yeah. And there was a lot of talent there, as you said, like Jason day was a big surprise for me in particular. he's been strong enough to warrant not sitting for an entire day.

Luke Manning: 00:14:39

that's right. it was terrible enough that you wouldn't play him the, two sessions. very strange decision making on Weir's part there.

Jake Hower: 00:14:49

Yeah, it was, the Sunday, I didn't watch a lot of the singles really. I tuned in a little bit, but by that time I thought it was a pretty insurmountable task for the internationals to get up and try and win that particular tournament.

Luke Manning: 00:15:00

So the Americans only needed five points to retain the cup and five and a half points to win it. that meant that the internationals needed eight and a half points, out of the 12 singles matches. Now, when you've got a team that's boasting nine players out of the top 20 in the AWGR, just very unlikely. It was over, as of Saturday afternoon. Day lost the opening match to Xander, three and two, Tom Kim halved the second match with Sam Burns. Hideki did take down Scotty Scheffler. and, he needed eight birdies to, to actually do it, which just shows how hard it is to beat that guy. then it meant it came down to Pendereth, and a match, that had Pendereth in it. and then also Siwoo Kim in order to keep the President's Cup alive. And when you're relying on Pendereth, in this sort of, team match play, environment, it's not a good thing.

Jake Hower: 00:15:56

It looks like now that he's a shareholder or a, stakeholder that he's really protecting his investment.

Luke Manning: 00:16:00

That's right, no hat pat, definitely delivered. So beating 1 on that, final day was a bit of a stone cold killer across the entire event.

Jake Hower: 00:16:12

Yeah. Him and Xander like the super solid, like that. That's pretty, pretty strong call. I've got now Xander, Pat, I guess in particular Scotty, they're all very consistent golfers. so you're not getting a lot of fluctuation in performance. So that's a great base to build on.

Luke Manning: 00:16:28

Incredible base and just the reliability and the consistency. and if you have a look at their swings and I know Scotty swing is not textbook, but it probably is until point of impact. It's all what happens after impact that sort of is non textbook, but they just get into great positions. they're not overly complex or complicated swings and that just, Zander never looks like he's going to get a bad shot.

Jake Hower: 00:16:52

No, funny moment in the event for me was probably after Kola bet Scott and Minwoo Lee, Morikawa hit up Instagram, post the photo of their win. And, his tag for it was chef cook, chef cooked, we ate.

Luke Manning: 00:17:10

the other thing that made me laugh about the chef, was that, I think on Friday and Saturday when he played no matches, there were people in the crowd wearing the chef's hats. they clearly weren't on the inside intel from Weir about his pickings, his pairings.

Jake Hower: 00:17:29

Any changes to the president's cut?

Luke Manning: 00:17:30

the common one that's thrown out there is let the women play as well, make it a mixed event. I heard Brendan Porath on Shotgun Start totally shoot that down and poo that idea. look, I don't know. let live players play. that's never going to happen given it's a PGA Tour event. there's a few things that they could trial and play with. I think you're probably on the right trajectory there in terms of reducing the number of matches. run it over three days instead of four, take one of the sessions out, and go from there. adding the ladies in would certainly, make it more competitive because of that sort of Australasian impact that would. be boosting to the international team's talent stocks. is that possible with the calendars? with the complexity of what's going on in world golf at the moment? really know.

Jake Hower: 00:18:24

Yeah. I dunno. I think it is what it is. Adding the lift players wouldn't have changed it too much because probably it's strengthened the U S T more than it did the international team bringing in Bryson potentially Brooks. so that would add a little bit more interest to it, but not a lot, but being a BJ to a product, you can't see that really happening. And then, yeah, I don't know if you incorporate the euros in some way that might be fun.

Luke Manning: 00:18:47

Yeah, what I'd probably prefer to just it alone and then create the Live VPGA Tour event, which we know there would be plenty of juice in that. and there'd be some real, heated passion from fans on both sides. and also just general golf fans that want to watch, all sorts of golf, whether it be PGA tour and live. So I that'd be the better investment in time is trying to get that product off the ground, rather than fix the problems with the President's Cup.

Jake Hower: 00:19:16

the interesting thing with that, and again, if I'll spend a bit of time on Rank Eagle and looking at sort of world rankings and comparisons, for this style of events, it would be beneficial for the PGA tour to promote that sort of live, live sort of PGA tour event, because if we're looking at world rankings and whatnot, That is way more lopsided than any of the others. I think the average world ranking of the Americans was sitting in and around, or the PGA tour was sitting around 12 or 13 and live was sort of 38, 40 or So it would, in my opinion, create some really lopsided, Potentially lopsided of events in favor of the PGA tour. So it would be in their interest, I think, in this short to medium term to actually get this up and running because they would dominate.

Luke Manning: 00:20:02

Yeah. I doubt they'll say it that way though. or, giving live more. credibility and legitimacy. I hope they see it the way that you've described as an opportunity to ram home their ascendancy and domination because I think it'd be great for golf fans to watch.

Jake Hower: 00:20:19

no, obviously world rankings like that. That's just one aspect. There's a lot more match playing in it. In itself is a very different base to what a strike plays. I'm not here saying that, the world rankings is what decides who wins or not. But, in terms of there's just a general skill level, it's, it is a big aspect to it as well.

Luke Manning: 00:20:35

I think, at an individual level, you're right. rankings don't mean too much. and you're with individual pairings, you're able to fire with fire to some extent, but I do think the rankings in aggregate, do give you an indication of where the balance of talent is, although we know that using OWGR is still, got a large asterisk. Beside it, and, it's heavily qualified.

Jake Hower: 00:21:03

I think that's actually another interesting thing. Cause I was thinking there was a lot, this is this president's cup, I think was probably the first that I've seen of those team events where there was a heavy sort of there's not reliance, but there was a lot of discussion on social media around strokes gains, the data golf strokes gains. and that in itself to me is it's hard to look at even strokes gain data round to rounds. and from the majority of this event, we weren't even seeing full rounds. So you had the alternate shots. So we're not even seeing players before, hitting their normal 70 odd shots in a particular round of golf. really use that to, make pairings on, or whatnot.

Luke Manning: 00:21:38

Yeah, I was Presidents Cup recap, and they were rating players based on their record and then their strokes gained, for the event. And look, it's a bit of an artificial number. it certainly has its limitations. It's the only number that's there. So I guess they threw it into the mix to try and provide some sort of, additional comparison data on top of just the straight win loss draw record. but I think it's not overly reliable given the nature of this particular event.

Jake Hower: 00:22:12

it's great on the macro, there's just too many sort of individuals. When you start looking at the micro and individual shot level or, round level data, it's wildly inaccurate, So I think on the macro, looking back over historically, it's great data, but, performance data and building teams on it based on what's happening in a particular event, I think is problematic.

Luke Manning: 00:22:30

and I don't think, any individual player will be, using the data coming out of the President's Cup regarding strokes gain to make any changes to their game or work on any particular areas. so it's a number, it's something that you might throw into the mix like what the NLU guys did, but you don't place too much reliance on it.

Jake Hower: 00:22:50

Yep. Now final, final point on, on the President's Cup before we switch across to the DP World Tour. The Saturday we saw an hour and a half fog delay and then we nearly saw, them calling, having to suspend play because of darkness. not many, games. So this was a four in each session. So four games on the golf course, one of them being alternate shots. So you're not even got four balls down on the golf course. You've got two and, we're nearly running out of daylight. What's going on.

Luke Manning: 00:23:19

Yeah, the pace of play was pretty bad, particularly in that afternoon session. Tom Kim, He's just so slow, stands over the ball for ages. I don't know if we were in J. B. Holmes territory, but we're not far off. and then you got, likes of Harmon in there as well with his waggles. it's not good watching, is it?

Jake Hower: 00:23:37

that's not,

Luke Manning: 00:23:38

the, just before we do move on from the President's Cup, we do need to address the elephant in the room, and we have called out Pendreth for his, woeful play. not just this time around, but last President's Cup, he was absolute shithouse as well. he was so bad this time around that I saw Tron Carter tweet out that we should just, this is Saturday afternoon, sit in for the singles match on Sunday and take the loss without even sending him out, which I thought was very good. But is he now in the never to be picked again category?

Jake Hower: 00:24:10

no, I think again, we've got some, what do you have to do to not get picked again?

Luke Manning: 00:24:15

he

Jake Hower: 00:24:15

probably the annual.

Luke Manning: 00:24:17

Cup?

Jake Hower: 00:24:17

he has. So I think, our memories are too short for that.

Luke Manning: 00:24:20

I think he only got some points this time around because Adam Scott carried him.

Jake Hower: 00:24:25

Yeah. two step Pat Reid, just upset the apple cart, the team environment that gets you not picked again, but

Luke Manning: 00:24:31

Yeah, that's

Jake Hower: 00:24:32

yeah, it was interesting, I think like in hindsight, seeing them skip over Cam Davis was, and even like Hadwin and who was the other, was it, there was a couple of Canadian, So skipping over those guys, and making the pics they did was very interesting. I'd hard to see why we redid it.

Luke Manning: 00:24:50

Cam Davis was inside the top 12 points.

Jake Hower: 00:24:53

yeah.

Luke Manning: 00:24:54

then we had talked about this in the lead up to the President's Cup, that we knew there were going to be captain's picks, siding with the Canadians to try and build on the home team. Advantage, the home crowd, enthusiasm. I just didn't think Pendreth was the right pick. I probably would have gone Hadwin. now he's had some questionable form, but, he has shown that he can perform in, on home soil in front of home crowds. so yeah, we got it wrong on a lot of occasions, I think this time around and, it's all there in the scorebook to be read now.

Jake Hower: 00:25:24

Right over on the DP world tour. We had the Spanish open, do some question marks coming into the event, whether or not Ram was going to get up for it. he's come off the illness. He flew in on the Wednesday, I think having, announced, That his wife gave birth. So he killed a couple of stone, went home in between live, recovered, had a baby, attended the event. I questioned last week whether or not he was going to be able to get himself up. He certainly did. He performed really well. and Hidalgo was the eventual winner in a two hole playoff with Ram. the final day was very exciting.

Luke Manning: 00:25:58

Doesn't this show that all the, speculation and hype about Ram not being the player that he was now that he's taken the bag from Liv is just total garbage. he's showing that he's competed all around the world, and, he might've preferred a better majors, performance this particular year round, but, he just continues to. compete and contest at the highest levels all around the world. So he's an incredible player. I'd be disappointed to get knocked off, in the playoff. really interesting. Holy 18th, great finishing hole being a short sort of drivable. provided for plenty of theater and drama, at the final stages there, but, Rahm just not able to get the birdie on the second playoff hole. Hidalgo was able to do so and take the win.

Jake Hower: 00:26:49

Yeah, so he performed pretty much all through the event, Hidalgo. He looked fairly comfortable in doing so, coming into the final round. Pooj started off hot and got himself, I think at the sort of three or four strokes at one particular point, Hidalgo dropped all the way back also. Pooj made a few mistakes, that sort of three bogeys over the course of three or four holes, and then All collapsed really. he, he looked like he was the guy to beat three or four shots up.

Luke Manning: 00:27:18

Yeah. And he'd be gutted by that. really great for the Spanish, to have the three Spaniards in the final group. the eventual winner, Rambo and Puge all playing together in that final group. And it was a seesawing affair, as you said, Puge got himself out to win. Ram held the lead at various times throughout the final round as well. And then, the young Spaniard who was a spectator at this event only a number of years ago, gets the W and knocks off the big ball Rambo.

Jake Hower: 00:27:48

Yep. Even I think Rambo coming, he was too back with two to play.

Luke Manning: 00:27:52

finished

Jake Hower: 00:27:52

it come.

Luke Manning: 00:27:53

the playoff, which, just shows the determination and the grit that the guy's got.

Jake Hower: 00:28:00

Yeah. And we saw Hidalgo miss a relatively short putt, to force that playoff, I just seeing someone like a Ram do what he did to close it out. Like the pressure. That it puts on other players. You saw it a lot with Tiger. there aren't many golfers in the world that would, I think Scotty now would certainly do it. You could Rambo possibly Rory and there wouldn't be many outside of those guys.

Luke Manning: 00:28:22

you having Rory, putting six or eight feet to save your life.

Jake Hower: 00:28:26

if he has the lead. No,

Luke Manning: 00:28:28

He's coming from

Jake Hower: 00:28:29

but if he's,

Luke Manning: 00:28:30

Yeah, it was a backdoor.

Jake Hower: 00:28:31

yeah.

Luke Manning: 00:28:31

Actually,

Jake Hower: 00:28:32

yeah. If he's trying to force the playoff.

Luke Manning: 00:28:35

having him. what about, did you see the clutch, up and down flop shot? from Angel on 14. to me was a pivotal moment. It was out of position off the tee, short sided himself on the right hand side, trouble in terms of bunkers and rough and all sorts of shit, and then just hits this full blooded flop shot. and leaves himself with a relatively short birdie putt, that he drains to make birdie. That was, certainly a pivotal moment for me in that final round.

Jake Hower: 00:29:04

yeah, so there's a lot of praise being heaped on the people to her over the course of the last few weeks, continuing on again this week with the, Alfred Dunhill, I think. A lot of that comes down to getting slightly stronger fields with a few live guys playing and whatnot. But also I think the other thing that is a huge factor that maybe we're not considering as much is just the fact that we're going to just the variants of the golf course. So we're seeing so many different styles of golf on the Euro tour, which you just don't see on the PGA tour. And that adds to the entertainment value.

Luke Manning: 00:29:37

Exactly. And it's why such, interest and hope for a global tour. This last few weeks and this week that's coming, have been great weeks of golf on the DP World Tour. As you say, it's a combination of different countries, different styles of golf course and a combination of live players, DP World Tour players and PGA Tour players all playing in the same event. So it's almost parading and demonstrating what can be possible if the governing bodies can get their act together. sadly it's unlikely that we're going to see that, but, This field for the Spanish Open was certainly a strong field. there were, several of the world's top golfers in terms of Hatton, Reid, Lowry, Tommy Fleetwood, Rahm, and the event coming up for Alfred Dunhill is going to be even stronger.

Jake Hower: 00:30:32

yeah. let's switch across to this week's events. so we have on the PGA tour, the Sanderson farms championship,

Luke Manning: 00:30:38

Snoozer.

Jake Hower: 00:30:39

we've got a lot written down about, but it's a snooze. I don't think as we've said previously, I think it's great that these events are here because it, creates a little bit of separation between those and the signature events. I think there's one mistake that the PGA tour is making with these full season events. and these are to keep your card for next season. I think it should, they should flip that. And this should be to get your card for next season. So combine it with the Corn Furry guys. and then make this essentially the Corn Furry finals. So pull in all these PGA Tour guys, all the Corn Furry guys, and make it, so like the, make it the qualifying series to get, Back onto the PGA tour

Luke Manning: 00:31:17

right? Because look at who we've got playing at the Sanderson. We've got Bill Haas, Chuck Hoffman, J. B. Holmes

Jake Hower: 00:31:24

Yeah.

Luke Manning: 00:31:25

indicative of the strength of this particular field. So it's not lighting anyone up to be tuning in really.

Jake Hower: 00:31:33

And these guys aren't, playing next year.

Luke Manning: 00:31:35

I wouldn't

Jake Hower: 00:31:36

they're just filling a field.

Luke Manning: 00:31:37

so needs to be some change. and for those that are interested in tuning in and seeing Chuck Hoffman and Bill Huss, you can see it from 10 o'clock on Thursday night Featured Groups.

Jake Hower: 00:31:50

I just can't see how they're going to keep seven, 7. 6 million event. I can't see how I can keep the money into those events.

Luke Manning: 00:31:57

what's Sanderson getting for that sort of money?

Jake Hower: 00:32:01

Yeah.

Luke Manning: 00:32:01

I can't imagine the TV ratings are going to be very good at all. And so that doesn't seem to be an economic equation. That's got any longevity in it.

Jake Hower: 00:32:14

Yep. All eyeballs are going to be on St. Andrews, the old course, among the other two courses for the Alfred Dunhill links. so that has got a jam packed field. we've got, Matty Fitz, McElroy, Fleetwood, Lowry, Horshall, and a bunch of the live guys as well.

Luke Manning: 00:32:32

Yeah. Billy boy Horschel, honorary, Brit or honorary European now, A good selection of PGA Tour players there. And then as you say, a bunch of Live guys, going deep on some of the Live guys there in terms of Oosty, Gooch, Burmey, all sort of playing, on top of, Kepka Ramhattan. So I think it's gonna, this is a great event. It's going to be good watching. we've got the three courses, Kings, Barnes, Carnoosty, and the old course at St Andrews. What's not to love? and so I'll certainly be tuning in from 9 p. m. on Thursday.

Jake Hower: 00:33:07

Yeah. So we're still missing like a Poulter, Ian Poulter. I think they wanted him playing, but the, because he's been, he's gone through that sort of core process and was denied. I think that's like the way he can't, he's not playing. So there's a few like that, Westie, maybe to some extent, but it's interesting then that, you've got Oostie in Burmese. Playing there as well, because they started the season on a DP world tour.

Luke Manning: 00:33:32

and I

Jake Hower: 00:33:33

In South Africa.

Luke Manning: 00:33:34

surprised that, Smithy wasn't playing. he was a notable omission from when I was having a look at the entries night. So I thought this would be a great event for Cam to go and play. But he's obviously wanted to have a bit of a break.

Jake Hower: 00:33:49

Yeah. he's going to have a long seal, not a long time. He's coming out. he's playing three events at the moment. I think in Australia, probably most likely a fourth event being the Australian open, which he hasn't confirmed for yet

Luke Manning: 00:34:00

the overs and unders line on kilograms gained by Smithy this Australian summer?

Jake Hower: 00:34:09

Herbie as well. Actually, Herbie was mentioning in the previous event that he's going to have a.

Luke Manning: 00:34:14

plus

Jake Hower: 00:34:14

we're going to, I think we're coming into 2025, very similar to what we finished 23, 24, yeah, they're going to be on the back foot again, I think,

Luke Manning: 00:34:25

50 mil in the ripper team kitty. I'm sure there'll be some team building and team bonding events in Australia when all the boys get back here.

Jake Hower: 00:34:35

yeah, have some fun. no, we saw the LPGA, there's no events. So they're heading to China next week. So they've got a week off. we saw a hurricane rip through Augusta. So there's a lot of devastation there. saw some pictures released, some drone footage of Magnolia lane at Augusta national. It's a dire situation for everyone, affected, Augusta released a release pretty much saying the same thing that they've sustained some damage, but their thoughts more to the greater community, hard to see that shot. I studied what I could have the golf course, the 18th and the ninth didn't look like there was a great deal of damage on the course itself. Certainly Magnolia lane looked like he'd had a lot, Sort of damage there. So it'd be interesting to see in and around Ray's Creek, what sort of damage has done now, I believe there is potentially some course altering damage done

Luke Manning: 00:35:28

Yeah. As you say, Magnolia Lane looked a bit of a mess. And, around nine and 18, that's all pretty open there. you're probably not expecting too much damage there, but as you get down the back there, you've got 11 and 12 and 13. that's along the boundary line there with Augusta Country Club. I suspect that there's lots of damage in through Amen Corner. Down the 10th on, to the left of the 10th and to the right of the 10th, there's plenty of trees around. hopefully the damage is not too great. certainly thoughts to the communities in Florida and Atlanta and elsewhere. that were, hit hard. I did see that, Zach Blair posted some photos of, the tree farm, which I think is in South Carolina, near Aitken, and not too far from Augusta as well. I think his course largely fared okay, but, by the tone Of his comments. There certainly were other courses in the Aitkin area. And there's some awesome golf courses in that particular part of South Carolina that, had been hit pretty hard.

Jake Hower: 00:36:35

there's a lot of love for match play over the weekend. So obviously with the president's cup and talk about maybe playing a bit more match play, we've heard a little bit from live in terms of expect to see more match play. I had a bit of a think about how to structure that. so for me. I think it'd be quite easy for live to be able to split up their events into, their current strike play events and a match play series. So you could have a working on the basis of 14 rounds and working on the basis that we're going to add two teams this year to bring it up to 60, 60 players. I think a good way to do it would be to split it eight strike play events and six match play events. And the way I would structure that is focusing on a match play with 15 teams. You would have, a buy each day. the three days per event, the first five events would be essentially like a regular season, with a points table each day, a team would play another, and so over the course of the first four plus two days of the fifth event. Each team would play each other. Once you would leave that final day of the fifth event to essentially a rage seedings. So you might have the top four or five, playoff on the final day to get a buy in the first round of the final season. you might have a little wildcard section there where some of the lower teams can make their way into the finals. and then you would have the team championship event, which would Arrange the winner and the way I'll structure it would be to have the first half of the season, or the majority of the first half of the season focused on a stroke play. As we said last week, I might put in behind each of the four majors, one of the match play events. And then once the open is finished, you would have the fifth and the sixth event for match play. And you'd probably have to find a couple of events for the stroke play finals to finish up as well. But I think that would be a good way to do it potentially. So you've got like a two relatively compelling competitions being the stroke play, And that's just the way golf has been played. So I think you need to really

Luke Manning: 00:38:39

it.

Jake Hower: 00:38:40

get some sort of season going around that as well. The only impact I could see potentially for the match play events would be like, if you're playing, seasonal, match play events, you don't have a final winner on day three. So you don't have a podium. So I don't know. That's the only thing I can't work out.

Luke Manning: 00:38:57

And look, I think playing with the schedule and the format. like this is something that live should 100 percent be considering, particularly if the signings, new signings cupboard is bare, because it needs to maintain momentum. It needs to maintain eyeballs or attract new eyeballs. One way that you could certainly do that and differentiate yourself from the PGA Tour significantly would be to offer people more match play opportunities. So I like your thinking. hopefully you're on the phone to Uncle Greg letting him, letting him know your thoughts.

Jake Hower: 00:39:39

I don't have his number.

Luke Manning: 00:39:40

you're listening.

Jake Hower: 00:39:41

Oh, there you go. Oh, look, I think that's it for the, for this one.

Luke Manning: 00:39:44

I finally did say speaking of, live for next year, I did see Andy Ogletree, out there talking up the live promotions event, later in the year, I think in December, that he's expecting a number of current PGA Tour players to be, heading over and trying to qualify. we did see some of that, Last year, Kevin Chappell was one that went over, there's another couple whose names just escaped me. Kevin Tway, I thought, maybe I might have that wrong, but, certainly Kevin Chappell went over with a couple of others. be interesting to see if, Andy Ogletree's right. you probably wouldn't come out and say that if you didn't, have a firm view that it was going to happen. do you have any thoughts on who might go and have a crack?

Jake Hower: 00:40:28

I think there'd be a lot to potentially court. so last year, what. I believe is that, the PGA tour come out and said, or at least to their members said that it wasn't an unauthorized event, pending further information. was then announced so late. That's. essentially said that, no, you couldn't because media releases had to be done 45 days or something like that, 45 days prior to an event and it ended up being inside that period. so it was a bit of an unknown whether or not anyone who went and played would be banned. So there was a little bit of discussion around, because Liv ended up televising the event and, paying competition. And maybe that's the PGA tour said that. So depending on that, let's say, let's, let's have a hypothetical here. And let's say that, it is not an unauthorized event and that we're outside of 45 days periods, which we certainly are. So let's say it, anyone can come into play and not get banned. The people I think it benefits the most is those in and around sort of 125 on the PGA tour. So they're the guys that are missing out next year. if we're looking at, Kiran Vincent, who's currently ranked 462 in the world, Vince Whaley was, is currently in, 1 26 position, which is no tour card for next year. he's ranked 172 in the world, so that. strengthens that bottom end of live. So there's an advantage there for live. Kieran Vincent made 2. 4 million or 2. 24 million on live this year, Vince Whaley made 730, 000, Vince Whaley played 19 events, Kieran Vincent played 14.

Luke Manning: 00:42:08

neither of them played in any majors, nor would they have.

Jake Hower: 00:42:12

So for players like Vince Whaley, like it makes sense financially, they're paying, playing less, earning a shitload more. and for live it's, there's a massive advantage because they're strengthening the tour. Like people will say, what's Vince Whaley going to do? And you're absolutely right. He's not going to add anything to live, in terms of the top end of live, but he's strengthening the bottom end. so based on that, if I was a PJ too, I'd be finding a way to ban. Anyone

Luke Manning: 00:42:37

And look, they probably will. Although, I'm not sure attracting the bottom rung of the PGA Tours is necessarily a good thing for Liv. if it strengthens the field, I suspect it would be marginal. in terms of its overall impact, but you might have, some of the, hard luck cases from the Korn ferry tour, having a look and going, maybe I might come across. And I think that would be a more exciting prospect for live to be attracting some of the, hard luck stories or those that just had a tough break, but I've got plenty of talent from Korn ferry if I go and qualify, that's a 2 million guarantee. and that's where I'm at.

Jake Hower: 00:43:18

certainly, I see some level of promotion I think is vital. but just in terms of having that pipeline of young potential superstar, because you're not going to survive just cherry picking clothes. we know at the moment, the DP world tour, the corn fairy tour, pretty much global golf is controlled by the PGA tour in terms of that pipeline, so that live has the Asian tour. which they're investing in, we've discussed it previously that the strength of the Asian tour is not there in terms of quality standard and for coming up to live. So you can't really give too many positions to season long participants on the Asian tour just yet. I think will be the end goal is to promote people from the Asian tour, the season long. Asian tour standings. but I think that's still a few years away because we need to strengthen that particular product in order to do it. And maybe that's like the end goal is to get someone like a, would take either the DP world tour or the corn ferry tour as their pathway and decide try and qualify for live on the Asian tour. So I think that will be the end goal. it certainly adds, I think Some level of promotion is good for the tour, but yeah, it's, they're not, again, we're not, talking superstars or anyone that's going to come and make an impact on live at the moment.

Luke Manning: 00:44:28

No, I wouldn't have thought so. And we did have those comments made by Phil as well, earlier in the year around teams owning their own courses and then turning those courses into sort of incubators talent development academies for the live players of the future. So I think there's some mileage in that as but of course you need the sort of feedstock to go into those. so as you say, that's still years away from coming to fruition.

Jake Hower: 00:44:56

Yep. It's going to be interesting nonetheless. I think this will be a lot stronger field than it has been in,

Luke Manning: 00:45:01

I agree with that.

Jake Hower: 00:45:03

All right, Lukey.

Luke Manning: 00:45:04

Thanks, Jake. Another good session, I look forward to chatting next week about the Alfred Dunhill.

Jake Hower: 00:45:10

I'll have, to recap. We'll probably have, another good event there.

Luke Manning: 00:45:13

I think it will be, we'll next week.

Jake Hower: 00:45:15

Thanks for tuning in.